Scotland the Brave?


What?! A post on the referendum for Scottish Independence? Why?!

Good question.

Well, President Obama’s ancestry can be traced to William the Lion, who ruled Scotland from 1165 to 1214, and who looked like a member of ZZ Top.

So, that’ll do.

(Also too, my mother and father honeymooned in Scotland – so that’s another excellent reason for the post)


Right then, the United Kingdom, made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Ireland was divided in the 1920s, Northern Ireland remaining in the UK, southern Ireland having the good sense and swagger to go independent 😎


So, how long has Scotland been part of the United Kingdom?

Since when most of Amk’s jokes were written: 1707.


How is the UK governed?

The central parliament (Westminster) for the United Kingdom is in England, and MPs are elected to it from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – but Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland also have their own home-based parliaments (Scotland since 1998) which have powers not taken by Westminster (eg The Scottish parliament has no powers over defense and foreign affairs, Westminster decides all that).


So, why all this talk about independence now?

Because on September 18, the people of Scotland will vote in a referendum to decide whether they will break away from the United Kingdom and form an independent Scotland. And if that happened, it’d be gobsmacking!1!1!



After 300+ years, why is there a referendum now?!

There has always been an independence movement in Scotland but it wasn’t until 2011 that the Scottish National Party, whose chief goal is independence, effectively forced a referendum by winning a landslide victory in the elections for the Scottish parliament.

The theory was that David Cameron felt he had no choice but to agree to a referendum at that point, because of the SNP’s mandate, but that he was completely confident Scotland would reject independence, largely because of economic fears. So he was fairly chilled about it.


So Scotland doesn’t feel well represented by the UK government?

Well, put it this way: the main party in the current UK government is Cameron’s Conservative Party, which won 306 seats in the last general election (2010).

How many of those seats were in Scotland?


So, no, Scotland doesn’t feel too chuffed when the UK government is led by the Conservative Party (and they’ll never forgive them for Margaret Thatcher and what she did to the country). And that has been one of the central messages of the pro-independence campaign:


 What’s the likely result of the referendum?

Well, this is what most of the polls have looked like lately….

…. so it’s anyone’s guess.

Until a couple of weeks ago, the polls showed the ‘No’ (to Independence) vote well ahead, but then a new poll came out showing ‘Yes’ narrowly leading – which prompted Cameron to choke on his breakfast (there’s a reasonable chance he would lose his job if Scotland voted Yes – even though Scotland is no friend of the Conservatives, his party would never forgive him for overseeing the break-up of the ‘Kingdom’) and general mass panic to break out among the UK establishment.

All of which prompted a bunch of scaremongering – Scotland would be chucked out of the European Union and would have to reapply for membership; they would lose their currency (the pound); British companies would leave Scotland, etc.

The scaremongering might work, it still seems likely that the vote will go against independence, but it looks like it’ll be mighty close.

If the yes vote wins, independence would take effect on March 24, 2016.


The Case For Independence


The Case Against Independence


The Guardian has an excellent Q&A here – and the BBC has all the latest here


The Important Stuff: Five Celebrities For Independence

Sean Connery

Alan Cumming

Annie Lennox

Irvine Welsh (Trainspotting author)

Gerard Butler


The Important Stuff: Five Celebrities Against Independence

Paul McCartney

JK Rowling

Mick Jagger

David Beckham

The Queen (her summer home is in Scotland, so she’ll be pissed if it’s ‘Yes’)


I love David Beckham, but his interjection in this debate…..


The final word goes to:

94 Responses to “Scotland the Brave?”

  1. 1 Nena20409
    September 15, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    Good Evening TODable TODville community.

    • 2 vcprezofan2
      September 15, 2014 at 8:23 pm

      🙂 Congrats!

    • September 15, 2014 at 8:26 pm

      Nena and VeeeeeeCeeeeeee, the Truly TERRIBLE Twins!1!1!

      • 4 Nena20409
        September 15, 2014 at 8:38 pm

        Love the Company and the Terrible Twins name. Thank you.
        In MN, we have Twin Cities: St. Paul and Minneapolis.
        Howdy Chips.

        I am conflicted on this New change. It will send a Huge Message around the world……..Britain helped shape the World Map……way too many nations today would like splits within. Should the Scots go their separate ways…….In Africa, Asia, and the so called Middle East…..in the next few years…..many nations would be seeking independence along ethic, language and racial lines.

        • September 15, 2014 at 9:07 pm

          I agree with you, Nena. And, it would only further embolden #TzarVlad to engineer divisions along ethnic lines in the Balkans, Poland, etc.

          Plus, Scotland would find itself out of the EU and NATO – not a good plan.

      • September 15, 2014 at 9:05 pm

        Yep, the Nena & the VC tied for FURST … quite the duo!!!

        Chips – most fun analysis of the “Free Scotland” referendum I’ve seen!!! Well done!!

  2. 7 vcprezofan2
    September 15, 2014 at 8:22 pm


  3. September 15, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    Just found in spam:

    “WOW just what I was looking for. Came here by searching for Plumbing.”


    • 11 MadameSoph
      September 15, 2014 at 8:38 pm

      WP spam is something to behold, isn’t it?

      Thanks for the info on the Scottish Independence vote. Like many here in the U.S., I have some distant Scottish ancestry. Those ancestral voices are whispering “yes”. 🙂

  4. September 15, 2014 at 8:28 pm

  5. 13 Catherine
    September 15, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Just received a “Ready for Hillary” email. Sent it back unsubscribed asking what is Hillary doing to GOTV in November ’14!!

  6. September 15, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Greatest Post EVAHHHH!!!!! 🍸 🍸 🍸 Did you see the John Oliver diatribe I posted this morning?

  7. September 15, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    Chips, my only worry about an independent Scotland is, can they survive and thrive economically? What do you hear?

  8. September 15, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    Random news items:

  9. September 15, 2014 at 8:39 pm

  10. September 15, 2014 at 8:41 pm


  11. 28 Nena20409
    September 15, 2014 at 8:41 pm

    Thanks for the Historical Post Chips. Great job.

  12. 29 vcprezofan2
    September 15, 2014 at 8:41 pm

    ‘Also…my mother and father honeymooned in Scotland – so that’s another excellent reason…’

    Chips Chica, *you* are. too. much! 😀

  13. 30 MadameSoph
    September 15, 2014 at 8:42 pm


    I left a message for you on a previous thread. Bringing it here in case you missed it (oh yes, and hope your tooth is recovering 🙂 :

    Congrats Chips on the Man U win!

    Also, that Danny clip with the super-cool ET toy was hilarious! So glad you saved him. I have an appreciation for classic/collectable toys and have had to rescue a few from the kitties (also lost one once when I discovered the massacre too late 🙂 )

    Here is a message for Danny from our house >^..^<:

  14. September 15, 2014 at 8:43 pm

    Ugh, am I being too cynical, cause I think they are hoping people forget by Jan!

    • 35 anniebella
      September 15, 2014 at 8:49 pm

      Why not give the grand jury to December 2020. I don’t trust that D.A. not one bit.

    • September 15, 2014 at 8:51 pm

      this would also mean that it won’t be in headlines going into November…and what happens in November that they wouldn’t want people to be motivated enough to do?

    • 37 arapaho415
      September 15, 2014 at 9:47 pm

      This is not good news.

      I’ve said before that Police Chief Jackson said at that press conference when he released that irrelevant convenience store video that no decision on whether to charge (or not) Darren Wilson will be made until the Grand Jury decided to indict (or not).

      Jackson will stand firm (the only thing so far he hasn’t lied or flip-flopped on) on this. So next month was the earliest (potential) charges would have been filed against Wilson.

    • 38 MightyPamela
      September 15, 2014 at 10:53 pm

      5 freaking months. This is utterly obscene.

  15. 39 amk for obama
    September 15, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    see? my jokes have stood the test of time.

  16. 46 Nena20409
    September 15, 2014 at 8:45 pm

  17. 47 Nena20409
    September 15, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    RealClearPolitics======RCP a RWing DC site

  18. September 15, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Here’s someone else praying that Scotland votes “No”: Ed Miliband. Losing Scotland for Labour would be like the Democrats losing California and New York. Labour would be hard pressed to ever again win a national election.

  19. September 15, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    I made this comment on last thread at the same time new thread was posted. Bringing it over. It’s about the Roosevelt docu on PBS.

    Anyone else watching The Roosevelt’s? It is astounding how closely TR’s beliefs and philosophy about role of government and how ALL people should be treated is aligned with PO. Also, how everyone, children included, were drawn to him. This is absolutely amazing!!

    Will add that after I typed that, there was a quote from him (regarding his run-in with JP Morgan and others vs. his support for the labor unions/workers and the citizens). “The Constitution was made for the people and not the people for the Constitution.” He considered himself a steward for the people of America. Sound familiar????

    • September 15, 2014 at 9:13 pm

      It’s an interesting documentary, full of new (to me) information, although I could certainly do without commentary from the likes of George Will and Jon Meacham.

      • September 15, 2014 at 9:24 pm

        Me too, meta. Found it interesting that earlier George Will was praising him for something and I immediately thought: But that’s exactly PO’s policy. The comment was just made for second time about his belief that the country MUST work for everyone, not just the privileged and wealthy.

    • 53 mtmarilyn
      September 15, 2014 at 9:18 pm

      I also am watching and dvr’ing it. I love history, read much but there is alot of this I didn’t know. I highly recommend it for everyone. It is amazing that Teddy was a Repub. He wouldn’t be welcomed in the party today.

    • 54 forus50
      September 15, 2014 at 10:02 pm

      I think Teddy was a very complex mix of conservative and liberal. Last year I read “The Wilderness Warrior” by Douglas Brinkley, presidential historian. Teddy’s life seemed impossible to believe at times; a boy born to wealth in Manhattan preferring to camp out West as a young man but ultimately everything he learned about nature he worked tirelessly (but successfully!) to preserve it for future generations. I had no idea how much of what he did in saving the wilderness was fought tooth and nail every step of the way by corporations out to make a quick dollar.

      On the other hand, his machismo and strong desire to get American into some type of fight somewhere to prove his manhood was something close to out of control. That whole episode involving Cuba and the Rough Riders sooo reminds me of what a John McCain was in his younger years. So many parallels related to their fathers and coming back a war hero to gain political power. But in terms of the film itself, wow! So well done. I love it.

      • 55 mtmarilyn
        September 15, 2014 at 10:08 pm

        I so agree with you about the machismo and war. He did remind me of McCain.

        • 56 carolyn
          September 15, 2014 at 10:35 pm

          Have watched both nights so far. It is fascinating. These people are much more complex than their stereotypes convey! Eleanor just had the saddest upbringing!!!

  20. September 15, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    Oh lord, another “doomed” DCCC email, i.e., “If we fail at our fundraising goal tonight, locusts will consume the land and your children will be born with 3 eyes.”

  21. 68 japa21
    September 15, 2014 at 8:57 pm

  22. September 15, 2014 at 9:01 pm

  23. September 15, 2014 at 9:02 pm

  24. September 15, 2014 at 9:02 pm

  25. 76 japa21
    September 15, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    I have tried to look at this as impartially as I can. Part English, part Irish. No Scottish blood in me, which doesn’t prevent me from frequently having scotch in me.

    I think they would be making a big mistake by going independent. Their main revenue comes from North Sea oil, which has a limited life span and, as more alternative energy is developed, the income from oil will decrease. They get a lot of the money they need for their social programs from England. In many ways, they are like the Southern states in that they rely on England for so much, yet still see themselves as a different country.

    I can definitely understand the desire to break away, Braveheart and all that. Freedom!!!!!!!

    Just think it would be a mistake. And although this should not be determinitive, even giving the vote is a, in his mind, justification for Putin to call for the same in eastern Ukraine.

    • September 15, 2014 at 9:14 pm

      “No Scottish blood in me, which doesn’t prevent me from frequently having scotch in me.” 🙂

      If I was Scottish, my heart would say a roaring yes, my head would be terrified in to voting no. There’s such a powerful, unified lobby against independence, almost all of the British media, I just don’t know how much truth is being told about the economic consequences of Scotland going it alone. That’s why it amazes me that the vote is so close.

      • 78 japa21
        September 15, 2014 at 9:29 pm

        I was listening to a panel of economists discussing it, none that I know of having any special reason to be biased one way or the other. Of the 5 or 6, only one thought it would not be an economic disaster for Scotland, although he admitted that government spending would need to be reduced a lot.

  26. 79 99ts
    September 15, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    When my father with his Irish Catholic ancestors married my mother with her straight laced Scottish Presbyterian roots – they said it would never last – and they had 64 years together.

    I really would hate for Scotland to leave the UK – my opinion – there is little benefit to anyone other than “patriotism” – rather like the South still fighting the civil war. Amazingly, if I was currently in Scotland, I would be able to vote – but not having such a vote – I will wait – somewhat fearfully – to see the outcome.

  27. 80 anniebella
    September 15, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    First Lady will be visiting Memphis St. Jude’s Children Research Hospital Wednesday 9/17.

    • September 15, 2014 at 9:29 pm

      I wonder if this is because Wednesday is National Childhood Cancer Awareness Day. I hope so. The month of September is “the kids” month. We have made MUCH progress bit have a long way to go. I am determined to keep working to get the WH GOLD for September.

  28. 82 hopefruit2
    September 15, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    US media to make Scotland’s affairs about PBO in 5…4…3..2…1…

  29. September 15, 2014 at 9:12 pm

  30. 85 amk for obama
    September 15, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    What does a man do only once in his lifetime, but women do once a year after they are 29?

    Turn 30.

    (this joke attributed to chips circa eve’s time)

  31. September 15, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    I am so torn. An independent Scotland is in my DNA. I get it.

    Ireland made a decent go of it, so why not Scotland.

    However, I know it’s not that simple. Far from it.

    I am bloody sick of all the overreactive THE SKY IS FALLING claims of the Sassenach…

  32. 90 Judith Fardig
    September 15, 2014 at 9:35 pm

    I’m staying out of this debate on Scotland’s independence vote. I just hope the largest number of people do vote both there and here in our own critical election.

  33. September 15, 2014 at 9:37 pm

  34. September 15, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    Good Evening Todders.
    I see VC is dancing around twitter…lol! Too cute..also did some research on PBO libraries…the Man IS and will remain popular. Period.

  35. September 15, 2014 at 10:12 pm

  36. 94 0388jojothecat
    September 15, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    I am watching “The Roosevelts: An Intimate History” and they just showed the part where Booker T. Washington dined with Teddy Roosevelt and the backlash was the same then as it is today with the racist msm, southern whites who were Democrats back then. The more things change the more they are the same. I wish George Will was not narrating.

Comments are currently closed.







Enter your email address to receive notifications of new posts by email.



RSS Obama White House.gov

  • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.

RSS WH Tumblr

  • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.

RSS Steve Benen

  • Law enforcement on high alert ahead of D.C. rally
  • Why Americans are leaving their jobs in record numbers
  • New book examines the lasting legacy of Colin Kaepernick
  • 'It is a call to action': Friday is National Black Voter Day
  • GOP House member who voted to impeach Trump won't seek re-election



Blog Stats

  • 43,099,860 hits
September 2014

%d bloggers like this: