John McCain, do you think we are dumb?

John McCain do you think we are dumb?

by @zizii2

I am very angry! Just what do you take us for, John McCain? Fools? You think we are the rubes in your base whom you’ve whipped up over the decades into backing all your sponsors’, the Military Industrial Complex’s, greedy siphoning of taxpayer $$$ in the name of “keeping America safe”? Or you think we are the fawning media that laps up every turd you have dropped in your public life, even if every prescription you have ever uttered has been deadly and wrong? No you cannot hoodwink the rest of us. Ah ah!!! Naw!


Barely a few months ago you and your comrade in wingnuttery, Lindsay Graham, pranced in front of every damn camera in the land to deride President Obama for not jumping in to arm the anti-Assad factions in Syria. Those factions happen to heavily comprise the SAME damn al Qaeda insurgents (the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria/ Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant — ISIS/ISIL) whom you now want us to go fight in Iraq!!! Before that you had called for airstrikes, and before that you called for the US to enter the Syrian war. Never a dustup anywhere in the world where you didn’t get your bomb bomb bomb war-gasm on. Just what is it that feeds this bloodlust and gunpowder-lust in you so much?

mccainSource: Time


Source: BBC


Let me REPEAT what I just said. John McCain & ilk in 2013 vilified President Obama for not going into Syria to arm the mostly Sunni insurgents to fight against Assad’s regime, and also for not bombing up Syrian military & strategic installations. The free-Syrian rebels who may have had a noble cause against Assad’s brutal regime had already been heavily infiltrated by Sunni insurgents pouring in from Saudi Arabia, Iraq and every damn rabbit hole in the Middle East. Yet McCain wanted us turning into the Jihadists’ airforce and arming this unsavory dangerous band of religious fanatics.

interventonistsSource: Andrew Sullivan


So it is especially galling that McCain should think we wouldn’t notice now that it is this same al Qaeda group ISIS/ISIL that he wants us to go back into Iraq to fight against. Even the 3 stooges wouldn’t do anything this stupid, that is, arm the very villains who would turn us into targets! But stupid is what McCain thinks we are. That’s because this disingenuous practice of profiting off all sides of global conflicts is what McCain’s paymasters, the Military Industrial Complex, is well practiced in. They have gotten the American people over the decades to become googly-eyed anytime the con-men feed them pabulum about “sacrifice for our freedoms”, string yellow ribbons and “Support our Troops” bumper stickers, while turning coddled military brass into media celebrities & “analysts” whose word is to be taken as “gospel” by all of us, but most especially the president who must never challenge the word of these gods. When all the while the real intent was to profit off our soldiers backs and taxpayers’s purse.

The misadventure in Iraq saddled us with more than one trillion dollars in debt, more than 4,500 dead soldiers, and more than 30,000 physically wounded, and God knows how many have been PTSD. But Dick Cheney and co made out like bandits, and siphoned $39 billion to his former employers, Halliburton. Thirty-nine billion US dollars plus fat civilian contractor gigs, not to mention the money creamed off the expansion of the national security apparatus, and phony intelligence contracting shell companies set up to extend the milking of our government.



And you John McCain have the nerve to tell us to go back into Iraq to fight the ISIS? Why, your campaign coffers dried up? Or you want a war-on so you can retire to a cushy job as head lobbying honcho of your paymasters when your terms is up in 2 years? Oh no we see your nakedness.
Just you look at this diagram and tell me you can make some damn sense of the Gordian Knot that is the Middle East. Whom and what will we be fighting, yet punching our own faces in the process?


Now sit your ass down and git your hands out of our pockets. Adults are deliberating!

122 Responses to “John McCain, do you think we are dumb?”

  1. June 12, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    Great post, Zizi! ……bringing this over from end of last thread

    …And before the U.S. government starts to do the next dumb thing again, namely provide fighter aircraft and drone attacks and heaven knows what else, it should stop and think for a change. If America comes to the rescue of this Iraqi government, then this Iraqi government, like so many of the others we’ve fought and died for, will do nothing. It will simply assume that we’ll take over, that we’ll do the job. And when things go wrong, and they certainly will, this cherished government that we’re helping will blame only America. Don’t think for a moment it will be otherwise. Don’t think for a moment that the generals and hawks who want to dispatch American fighters and drones to the rescue know any better today than they’ve known for 50 years…..

    …I am in favor of trying and trying the diplomatic route, which we seem to approach as a last resort, not a first one. In Iraq, this means Washington’s offering up some version of the federal plan that then-Senator Joe Biden and I proposed almost a decade ago. The idea was to keep the country whole, but to let each major group essentially run affairs in its own region. The Kurds are already doing so in the north, and many Shiites are doing so in the south. With some prompting from Washington, Maliki needs to empower a Sunni region in the center and give it its fair share of Iraq’s oil revenues. Then, maybe, the majority of moderate Sunnis and the Shiite soldiers will stand up to the crazed jihadis. A similar decentralized approach might be the only way to lessen or eventually stop the fighting in Syria and to provide some measure of peace in the future Afghanistan.

    Before the United States jumps off another cliff, let’s simply stop and take note of the bloody realities of more than fifty years. These internal civil wars, including the fights against these terrible extremists, are won and can only be won by the people Americans want to help—not by American troops, planes, drones, trainers, equipment and arms. And in the interest of a great majority of people in these countries who suffer from these wars, Washington owes it to them to try, just try, the diplomatic path of decentralization and federalism.

  2. 2 amk for obama
    June 12, 2014 at 9:09 pm

  3. 3 Ladyhawke
    June 12, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    Don’t Be Sucked Into War With Iraq, Again

    By Joseph Cirincione


    This is not to say, “We told you so,” but to warn that the desperate, quick fixes now being offered are false hopes. The hard truth is that there is little we can do to save the corrupt, incompetent government we installed in Iraq. If 10 years, millions of hours of work and hundreds of billions of dollars could not build a regime that can survive, it is difficult to imagine any fix that can. Those seeking to blame the Obama administration for the collapse are engaged in a cynical game.
    In other words, the problem is not that we started the war, it is that we never should have ended it.

    None of these critics have the slightest self-awareness. None take responsibility for their previous policy pronouncements. It’s like the driver of a car that has plowed into a crowd of pedestrians blaming the emergency medical technicians for not saving the lives of those injured.



  4. 4 Layla
    June 12, 2014 at 9:12 pm


  5. 5 Jovie
    June 12, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    If we didn’t have a billion dollar embassy in Baghdad, and if Isis wasn’t worse than Al Qaeda, then America would not get involved.
    Albeit, this is GW problem, this president cannot give up that asset in Baghdad.
    I think air strikes in coordination with Iraq army is obvious, at this point. If and only if, Baghdad comes under seize.
    Otherwise, the rest of Iraq is toast, Isis is vicious. These guys are worse than Al Qaeda ! 😦

    • 6 Layla
      June 12, 2014 at 9:19 pm

      There are apparently 800 of them, is that right…

    • 8 japa21
      June 12, 2014 at 9:19 pm

      Which is why ultimately they won’t succeed. Even al Qaeda has trouble getting the populace on its side. This group, which is actually quite small by comparison, have its successes, but it can only stretch so far. It will end up over-hing and collapse upon itself. I am not trying to minimize the situation.It will be horrible for a while, but then the Middle East will be horrible for a while.

    • 13 amk for obama
      June 12, 2014 at 9:22 pm

      you are falling for media and mic hysteria.

      • 15 Jovie
        June 12, 2014 at 9:25 pm

        And if our embassy comes under attack?
        Do nothing? That’s your plan? Do nothing? Let it happen?
        30 miles outside if Baghdad, a checkpoint has been decimated by Isis.
        They’re coming.
        Better have a plan?
        Just saying!
        It’s complicated, but do nothing is stupid! Seriously! 🙂

        • 16 amk for obama
          June 12, 2014 at 9:27 pm

          So, what exactly is your plan? Restart the war? Remember all the yelling about syria, egypt, libya and how the world is gonna end if US didn’t intervene?

        • 19 japa21
          June 12, 2014 at 9:58 pm

          Jovie, if they attempt an attack on our embassy, we will go after them, but not with troops on the ground, or at least not a large number. And our best allies in the region right now may will be Iran, who are sending special troops in.

        • June 13, 2014 at 3:43 pm

          Jovie, here’s a solemn suggestion; why don’t you signup and suit up. I’m sure the Maliki Iraq military can use you.

    • June 12, 2014 at 9:23 pm

      So then imagine if we’d listened to McCain last year and armed this very band of vicious insurgents. What would situation be today. As I said it is a Gordian Knot that demands careful deliberation, not he trigger-happy nonsense McCain is spewing

      • 22 Jovie
        June 12, 2014 at 9:26 pm

        I am only concerned with our embassy there, which I have been to several times. It was inside the green zone.

        • June 12, 2014 at 9:31 pm

          Yes, it is important, but dropping bombs on isis is not a viable plan without considering ramifications, else we’d have Benghazi redux. And you’ll see McCain & Graham turn on a dime.

        • 26 Layla
          June 12, 2014 at 9:31 pm

          Jovie, PBO WILL take care of the embassy. You need to trust him

    • 27 nospin
      June 12, 2014 at 9:28 pm

      “this president cannot give up that asset in Baghdad”

      Why not? It’s just a building. US should not in the business of policing the world. I am not saying the US should stand aside and see folks slaughtered but it is the responsibility of the National community to help balance the scales a bit. However, it won’t get better unless the people themselves had enough. They will have figure out the next step.

      • 28 Jovie
        June 12, 2014 at 9:33 pm

        And when we gave up that asset in Iran in 1979? How did that work out?
        If so, like you say, we have 17k military, state deot, black water, etc stationed at that embassy.
        So do nothing, and let them all die?
        We better get them out, if they’re coming, bc the overall consensus is do nothing and give up that building!
        It’s a tough decision.

        • 29 nospin
          June 12, 2014 at 9:41 pm

          Potus will get Americans out or there will be hell to pay. I have zero doubts about that.

          However, everything else can go. This is something the people have to decide for themselves. When you get your ass kicked enough times in your own house, eventually you decide what is worth fighting for or not.

          Your neighbors can only do so much but until you take action yourself all else is a waste of time and resources.

        • June 12, 2014 at 9:42 pm

          Please, Jovie. No one, especially our President, is going to allow all those Americans at our Embassy to die. He’s not Ronald Reagan.

          As I noted above, President Obama will deploy lethal force if our Embassy is even close to being attacked.

          That said, the situation in Iraq bears remarkable resemblance to the situation in Iran in 1979. Had the CIA not disrupted Iran, as GWB did in Iraq, the US would NOT have faced ANY of the horrors that resulted from two colossally STUPID interventions.

          That’s the lesson plan we’ve yet to learn. Perhaps Professor Obama will finally succeed in getting Americans to learn that interference in the matters of other sovereign States is FOOLS play that typically results in the US Citizens – never the sons and daughters of the #MIC, the #NEOCONSTERS – bleeding and dying on soil of places that never posed any real threat to us in order to enrich the WARMONGERING #MIC.

          I honor your service, Jovie, and your inescapable loyalty to your fellow warriors. My message is simple – I will not stand for you to be USED again.


        • 31 amk for obama
          June 12, 2014 at 9:45 pm

          If you indeed have 17K military and other contractors stationed there, then why do you think isis (800 or 3-4K or whatever) is gonna defeat them and take over the embassy? Doesn’t make sense.

          • 32 Jovie
            June 12, 2014 at 10:29 pm

            Only about 3k military, CIA etc.
            State dept has large contingent there, so dies DSS which is in charge of security.
            But, even attacks of this sort can have limited success.
            And the President can I’ll afford to lose any American lives over there at an, you know , embassy!
            It’s complicated!

            • 33 amk for obama
              June 12, 2014 at 10:33 pm

              I am questioning your theory of isis is somehow a superior fighting force, especially, against a well fortified target.

    • 34 jacquelineoboomer
      June 12, 2014 at 10:03 pm

      But I think we left behind gazillions of dollars’ worth of military equipment in Iraq, impossible to bring out on such a large scale. So what’s a big-dollar embassy building? Not like we didn’t know the risk, when it was built. – Just my opinion.

      • 35 Jovie
        June 12, 2014 at 10:26 pm

        And the people there? They have a mission to protect our, cough cough, oil company Exxon!
        I am serious!
        So then what happens when Isis takes over Baghdad?
        Number one, get our people out!
        Number two, oil will be five dollars a gallon with Isis in charge of Iraq.
        It’s very complicated! The mighty American military surrenders a billion dollar embassy to 800 Isis fighters. More details at 11!

        • 36 jacquelineoboomer
          June 12, 2014 at 10:27 pm

          Thanks again, Bush!

          • 37 Jovie
            June 12, 2014 at 10:30 pm

            Right ! But this president will be blamed.
            It’s how they’ll frame it.
            Best have a plan…

            • 38 jacquelineoboomer
              June 12, 2014 at 10:34 pm

              Oh, exactly. This president has been blamed for everything on his watch and stuff from past presidential watches. It’s so ludicrous, it’s beyond appalling.

        • 39 99ts
          June 12, 2014 at 10:33 pm

          The price of oil should NEVER be an element in starting new wars – that was one of the issues under Bush – PBO has it right – remove dependence on oil – but to bomb Iraq because someone in Mississippi has to pay more for their gas – that is GOP speak.

  6. 40 japa21
    June 12, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    One righteous rant zizi.

  7. 41 anniebella
    June 12, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    If we listen to John McCain, we should have bomb Iran, gone into Syria, gone to Ukraine, and now go back to Iraq. Where next McCain?

  8. June 12, 2014 at 9:23 pm

    zizi – YOU ARE A FORCE!!!

    I was not being the least bit facetious with this tweet …

    We are face to face in unprecedented final stage negotiations with the Iranians as to resolve their nuclear arms ambitions (thank you very much President Obama and team).

    The Shia Persians are the most capable, regional folk to help Iraq defeat the Sunni insurgents (in Iraq and Syria). Since President Obama is typically 100s of steps ahead of the #NEONCONSTERs and mouth breathers like McCain and Graham, my hope is that more than a little cooperation is underway to stanch these Al Qaeda/Sunni – Yes, Saudia Arabia we are looking straight at you – terrorists.

    BTW, ask yourself why SA and Qatar have such magnificent air forces and yet refuse to establish a no fly zone over Syria to keep Assad from barrel bombing (some containing chlorine gas) day after day after day his own people. Why should the US or NATO or anyone else provide that protection to Syrians.

    Remember it was GWB swapping spit with the Saudi Royalty, not President Obama.


  9. 49 Nena20409
    June 12, 2014 at 9:26 pm

    Brilliant Post Zizi2.

    I am not a fan of Chris Hayes……but as I sat down and had my TV on MSNBC, I heard Hayes play clips from 2003 of the bat poop coming out of McCain’s mouth promising the Sky and all. The low cost of Iraq war. That Iraq Oil would fund our cost. That we would be greeted with Flowers and Roses. That Gazillions of WMD would be found. And No conflict amongst the Shia/Sunni or the Tribes within Iraq. Etc, etc, etc.

    That tape would compliment your post a great deal.

    Thank you for writing this today.

    • 50 Lovepolitics2008
      June 12, 2014 at 10:08 pm

      Fantasy… Barack Obama enters the White House Briefing Room. There’s a big screen. He puts in a DVD, with lots of clips from 2003. McCain, Cheney, Rumsfeld. Saying all the stuff that looks so stupid right now. Wow that would be a treat. And what better way to shut them up, and to stop the media for getting them a platform.

      Of course it won’t happen. So at least we have Chris Hays. And probably Rachel who’ll dust up some old tapes. Maybe we should tweet the weblinks of those tv segments to the national punditry, who, once again, is panicking and following the interventionists.

      THANK GOD America has a president with a cool head in the Oval Office. He’s indeed 100 steps ahead of everybody, and I include a good part of the military leadership by the way.

      Note: wouldn’t it be sweet if , suddenly, Joe Biden’s idea of a federation gained some consideration within the Beltway ? I’ve been mad for years at how the Village, and the National Security Establishment (Bob Gates I’m talking to you), don’t take Joe Biden seriously.

  10. June 12, 2014 at 9:32 pm

  11. 52 Nena20409
    June 12, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    US will do something to get Americans out. That much I know.

    This president isn’t going to get involved if 30K Iraqi soldiers deserted and allowed 800 ISIS to take over and raid banks taking over $400M plus and US supplied equipment.

    Iraq at the end of the day, belongs to Iraqis willing to fight and defend their nation…..be it in 3 pieces or as a 2/3 nation…. for the Kurds are happy with their situation.

  12. 55 nospin
    June 12, 2014 at 9:34 pm

    Righteous rant Zizi. Tell it.

  13. 56 desertflower
    June 12, 2014 at 9:37 pm

    zizi, excellent piece, as always. Important piece! Thank you for this… O/T, but another important read that we may want to address more in another thread, but I have to put it up here now or else I may forget.


    n the immediate aftermath of last night’s shocker in Virginia, analysts have been saying Brat’s victory was just a fluke.

    They couldn’t be more wrong.

    Dave Brat’s victory wasn’t just a fluke, and he isn’t just some Tea Partying economics college professor from Virginia.

    Both he and his victory have dark money written all over them.

    Back in 2008 during America’s financial collapse, BB&T Bank was one of the many big banks that crashed. In order to stay afloat, that bank took a $3.1 billion bailout from the Bush administration.

    At the helm of the bank at that time was John Allison, an Ayn Rand-loving CEO.

    According to The Street, during his time as CEO of BB&T, Allison regularly used the BB&T Charitable Foundation, “to provide grants to schools that agree to create courses on capitalism that feature the study of ‘Atlas Shrugged.’”

    Meanwhile, according to New York Magazine, Allison gave $500,000 to Randolph-Macon College to hire Dave Brat, so that he too could teach the Ayn Rand libertarian philosophy as an economics professor.

    Shortly after BB&T accepted $3.1 billion government bailout from the Bush Administration, Allison resigned as CEO, and was picked up by Charles Koch, to become the new president of the Cato Institute, formerly known as the Charles Koch Foundation, and to keep spreading the work of Rand.

    Much like the BB&T Charitable Foundation, Koch-allied groups like The Cato Institute have spent millions of dollars, putting college professors in economics departments across the country, so that they can spread the good word of Ayn Rand, and help create a libertarian paradise in America.

    This is no accident.

    • 57 Lovepolitics2008
      June 12, 2014 at 10:12 pm

      Wow. The Kochs are so organized and are working with a long term perspective. They are SCARILY good at it.

    • 58 Vicki
      June 12, 2014 at 10:15 pm

      Desertflower—this is such great info. So the baby-faced economics professor isn’t exactly the innocent with no money we’ve been told he is. Thank yoou for this!!!!!

      • 59 desertflower
        June 12, 2014 at 10:27 pm

        Nope! Sure isn’t! Another Ayn Rand Freaking Koch Whore. Damn cockroaches

        • 60 HZ
          June 12, 2014 at 11:00 pm

          Desertflower, I just received a popular copy of a magazine that has a very interesting article on the Koch Brothers. Interesting read.HZ

  14. 61 hopefruit2
    June 12, 2014 at 9:37 pm

    Thank you zizi – one again you’ve hit it out of the park!

  15. 62 amk for obama
    June 12, 2014 at 9:39 pm

  16. 63 Layla
    June 12, 2014 at 9:40 pm

    I so do not like hair on fire!

  17. 64 Nena20409
    June 12, 2014 at 9:40 pm

    The Only thing that I would ask of pres Obama is whatever his decision. Go before the American people. Tell them his plan and why. Of all the current elected officials in the Land, most of Us trust this president. Americans do not want wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. This nation needs a serious talking to and this way, the Politicking is diluted for the Media and the GOPers plus emoprogs will drive an unnecessary unwanted distorted propaganda. When many are screaming all at once, None is heard.

  18. 65 Jovie
    June 12, 2014 at 9:41 pm

    Iraq is a splintered country. It has several different factions including the government.
    The people are not beholden to the federal government, they are a bunch of large and small gangs.
    They fight each other every day, it’s a hornets nest.

  19. 69 GGAIL
    June 12, 2014 at 9:44 pm

    Good post zizi.
    I agree.
    Trust Barack.
    I’m ok with pulling the Americans out, close the embassy & let the Saudis know we will supply strategic support, not human lives.

  20. 70 Jovie
    June 12, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    So my account gets suspended bc I am having a cordial conversation about what to do in Iraq?
    No wonder I took six months off! Jeesh! 😦

  21. June 12, 2014 at 9:52 pm

    Oh, and then there’s this ….

    #TrustBarack … or at least have the sense to keep your trap shut because, otherwise, you’re guaranteed to soon be revealed as a FOOL.

    • 77 kathleenp444
      June 12, 2014 at 10:27 pm

      luuuv you bob! 🙂

    • 79 HZ
      June 12, 2014 at 10:42 pm

      Bobfr, great tweet and observation. Thank you so much. The more Sen. Feinstein receive from us, hopefully she will learn her lessons. I contacted her before this came out, and I did notice that she did make a camera stand; but she said that she would like to speak with the President first and wait and see what he is thinking, and ppl should not start going off without getting the facts from the President. The tape is out there. She spoke immediately after the two drama queens appeared before the cameras with their hair all on fire.
      I did send out a tweet that maybe Sen. Feinstein did get the ‘memo.

      I was polite with my call and email to this senator of mine, but I was not speaking for the amusement of having her staff on the phone smiling. I made it clear that the Senator needed to make her call to the President and talk face to him. He would take her call. And for her to stop running in front of the camera and run to her fun and pay due respect to the President, if she needed information that could be shared in a setting that would help all of us. I was not playing with Sen. Feinstein. After all, she is one of my senators, and she works for us. Not the tv stations. I think someone in that office got the message. Now, for how long; I do not know, but I will call her office again and again, if need be.HZ’

  22. 80 Nena20409
    June 12, 2014 at 9:53 pm



    It is a reminiscent of what happened to Alex Sink during the Gubernatorial debate in 2010. She check her cell phone and that pretty much sunk the Sink 😉

  23. June 12, 2014 at 9:54 pm

  24. 82 Nena20409
    June 12, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    Pete Session of TX has bowed out from competing from the Majority Leader post? Chicken. I gleefully want them to keep fighting. In 1968, 1972 and 1980 Dems were fighting so publicly that the nation elected Nixon Twice and Reagan. In 1980, GOP won the control of the senate.

    Please proceed, DC GOPers.

  25. June 12, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    Evening all.

    Spent a full day doing librarian shizz. Helped train a very nice new librarian.

    I see that the bitter fruit of George W. Bush’s plant has come to fruition. We’ve done to Iraq what we did to Afghanistan in the 80s/90s: used it, broke it, and then wondered why they hate us.

    There are no good options. The Iraqi Army isn’t willing to fight, so why should we? As Jeff Gauvin tweeted last night, at least the ARVN fought a fighting retreat for 3 years. Iraqi brigades are just deserting en masse. We can’t fight their war.

    Just glad PBO is in charge.

    • 85 Jovie
      June 12, 2014 at 10:10 pm

      The Shia Iraqi army isn’t willing to defend Sunni cities, like Tikrit and Mosul.
      But Baghdad, I would be very surprised if they just left!

      • June 12, 2014 at 10:12 pm

        I hope they do take a stand, but so far they’ve shown, shall we say, an unwillingness.

      • 87 Lovepolitics2008
        June 12, 2014 at 10:30 pm

        No Sunnis in the Iraqi army ? It probably made sense in the first years after the defeat of Saddam Hussein. But the Malaki government ( and the Bush administration) should have realized that not giving any place to the Sunnis was a dangerous gamble…

        Good grief. What a mess…

        Now ordinary citizens in the Sunni parts of Iraq will live a nightmare. How long and horrible will be their journey before they get rid of the extremists ?

  26. June 12, 2014 at 10:03 pm

  27. June 12, 2014 at 10:06 pm

  28. 93 jacquelineoboomer
    June 12, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    Great piece, zizi2! Keep ’em coming.

  29. 94 Jovie
    June 12, 2014 at 10:08 pm

  30. 96 Nena20409
    June 12, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    Jay’s Presser at the WH on 6-12-14

  31. 97 carolyn
    June 12, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    Both Chris Hayes and Rachel were excellent on this tonight. Chris Hayes showed GWB’s misbegotten adventure “Mission Accomplished” and proceeded to show how it certainly isn’t. Rachel within her first twenty minutes going over the history of this horror, also showed John McCoward and the fact that he attended a classified briefing on Iraq for two minutes (this is his pattern) then had to run to the mics to spout off his ideas. She also showed how wrong he has been on everything. Chris had Barney Franks on about this, and he was excellent.

    Rachel showed what happened in Viet Nam, and how Pres Ford wanted billions to shore up the So. Viet Namese army, and the Senate Foreign Relations committee went en masse to the White House and said no, no more going back to Viet Nam. They would pay to get our people out, but not for more troops. Joe Biden was part of that committee. We broke Iraq under GWB…..unsettled the entire ME, and this is the result. We can’t fix it. Hussein was a dictator, but he had the strength to keep down these jihadist groups. That was shown tonight on Chris and Rachel.

    I keep thinking of our Civil War. It was bloody, awful, prolonged, destructive, but it was our war. No foreign nation came in to take a side or tell us what to do. As Chris and Barney pointed out, Graham and McCain wouldn’t know which side to support, they’d be fighting for all sides, endlessly.

  32. June 12, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    • June 12, 2014 at 10:25 pm

      Point of clarification in order ….

      Given the reality that some future US President may actually need to fight a ‘just war’ given the barbarians still roaming the planet. However, I think that a decade or two of the ‘Obama Doctrine’ being implemented is likely to reduce war more dramatically than at any time in human history.

      #TrustBarack and, for your own sake, don’t EVER think he’s a wimp ….. just say’n ….

      • 103 HZ
        June 12, 2014 at 11:08 pm

        “#TrustBarack and, for your own sake, don’t EVER think he’s a wimp…..just say’n…”

        Bobfr, you are calling all of the plays tonight. Thank you. You listen and watch your president very carefully with your brilliant mind as all of our TOD family. This is truly a very special time and place to be at this moment in our history. HZ

  33. 104 amk for obama
    June 12, 2014 at 10:20 pm

    What are your thoughts on Jack Trammell’s viability?

    I think he is viable, especially given the new dynamics of the campaign. I think it just depends on the voters’ perception of these two candidates. This is kinda a new ballgame. It remains to be seen whether Dave Brat is too radical for the 7th district. Just because one wins a primary doesn’t mean one will appeal to the majority of voters throughout the district in a general election. I imagine Brat will be portrayed as radical, out of touch, too right wing. I think Jack Trammell is a moderate and will portray himself as a moderate. That may be more appealing than a candidate from the far right. We all know it’s a gerrymandered district, it has a built in advantage for a Republican. But I don’t know if Dave Brat’s style and his brand of Republicanism is going to be appealing to a majority of voters in a general election.

    What would Trammell need to do to win?

    I think he needs to be his own person, he needs to be reasonable and moderate with regard to the issues. With Brat, it’s black and white, no shades of gray. Honestly, 65 to 70 percent of the voters in the district are here in the Richmond metropolitan suburban area. I’m not sure people in the suburbs are gonna like Brat’s style of politics. We’ll see how he conducts himself — if he’s very rigid and very dogmatic, I think that will work against him. But I don’t know that given his base, he can be anything else. It remains to be seen if he can moderate himself, if it’s in him or not.

    • 105 nospin
      June 12, 2014 at 11:14 pm

      “What would Trammell need to do to win?”

      Represent the interest of his constituents. That is what I have seen in reading the news and blog sites the past two days.

      Republicans are open to Trammell. They prefer him over Brat but are waiting to hear more from him. In this case, I think Dems have a strong chance of winning because the 7th district is really looking to elect someone who represents what is in their interest vs. which party the guy running belongs to.

  34. 106 Layla
    June 12, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    While people are flailing around PBO is quietly doing his work. I LOVE this man!!!! Trust Barack

    • 107 99ts
      June 12, 2014 at 10:51 pm

      He seems to never get a break from it Layla – the fallout from GWB continues both inside and outside of the US.

      • 108 HZ
        June 12, 2014 at 11:10 pm

        Yes, indeed Layla and 99ts. But with his strengths and our strengths behind him; we will make this a new day and time in America for the better.HZ

  35. 109 carolyn
    June 12, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Great piece zizi2. And in answer to your question: Yes, John McCain thinks we are dumb, he thinks we have short memories, he thinks videotapes self destruct, and he proved he thought we were dumb by choosing Sarah Palin.

    However…….both Chris and Rachel showed wonderful videotapes of all the instances we’ve been talking about……McCain blathering about how wonderful the Iraqis would treat us along with Sean Hannity…….he can’t hide any more. Tapes of his leaving briefings after two minutes and rushing to mics.

    • 110 Layla
      June 12, 2014 at 10:31 pm

      I see the media slowly turning on McShame….started with the flip flop on the POW release. BTW I pray for this young soldier and his family tonight

    • 111 jacquelineoboomer
      June 12, 2014 at 10:32 pm

      I believe McCain doesn’t care if we’re dumb or not. At this point in overstaying his welcome in the Senate, he does and says what he does and says just to “get a rise” out of President Obama, the President’s supporters, decent people, other Republicans, the media, neighbor kids on his lawn, etc. In my mind, he spouts off to think himself relevant, due to his ego, but really does not care one iota about what he’s saying or how it’s being received. Hollow-cored, maniacal nutjob. Why no one in his immediate family cares enough about him to tell him what an ass he’s making of himself, I’ll never know.

        • 113 jacquelineoboomer
          June 12, 2014 at 11:12 pm

          Evenin’, theo.

        • 116 HZ
          June 12, 2014 at 11:18 pm

          And remember also jacquelineoboomer, McCain probably give his family the same talking crap; but they probably just move on and let him going around those nine houses(if he ever goes home) and babble like the foolish man that he is. Jealously , hatred of another man’s hard work; and plain hatefulness that rules your life can make you seem like the craziest person on the planet. He is a shameful man when these traits take control of his soul. It is sad because he does not see the larger picture or seem to care about peoples precious children and their lives. Our men and women will always be given a mission and how that mission will be accomplish when this CIC sends them in the field to defend this country. I know that much about how PBO operates from his core. Trust me on this one. HZ

  36. 118 Vicki
    June 12, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    If anyone cares—Spurs ahead by 13 in start of 3rd quarter.

  37. 119 globalcitizenlinda
    June 12, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    Zizi, this is another gem – thanks!

    we need to confront these perpetual war-mongers;

    I will do my little part to make sure that this post not only goes as far as possible but that this bitter warmonger gets to hear from us all pushing back;

    here is my start;

  38. 120 99ts
    June 12, 2014 at 10:49 pm

    President McCain would now have the US at war with Syria, Libya, Iran, Russia and probably a few other places. While he screams about 4 Americans dying at benghazi – he wants millions more Americans to die on foreign soil. Between the war mongers, the racists, the misogynists and the downright insane, there is nothing but nothing of value in the republican party – and still people vote them in to power. Their “divine right to rule” is worse than any monarchy in any nation.

    That the media gives this nutcase a platform is beyond belief.

  39. 121 HZ
    June 12, 2014 at 11:24 pm

    I hope that I am not out of place, Chips. But the magazine that I was mentioning to DF is the current Mother Jones’ issue for July-August 2014 . Also a cannot stop reading article “OutFront” Strict Obstructionist about the son of Justice Antonin Scalia’s son. Very interesting. HZ

  40. 122 sjterrid
    June 13, 2014 at 12:17 am

    Zizi, another excellent post.

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