07
Jun
13

Facts Always Win Over Feigned Outrage

By Nerdy Wonka 124 Comments
Categories: All Photos and Articles
Tags: , , , , ,

usa-obama

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MUST read piece by David Simon

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David Simon: Is it just me or does the entire news media  – as well as all the agitators and self-righteous bloviators on both sides of the aisle — not understand even the rudiments of electronic intercepts and the manner in which law enforcement actually uses such intercepts?  It would seem so. Because the national eruption over the rather inevitable and understandable collection of all raw data involving telephonic and internet traffic by Americans would suggest that much of our political commentariat, many of our news gatherers and a lot of average folk are entirely without a clue. You would think that the government was listening in to the secrets of 200 million Americans from the reaction and the hyperbole being tossed about.  And you would think that rather than a legal court order which is an inevitable consequence of legislation that we drafted and passed, something illegal had been discovered to the government’s shame.

Nope.  Nothing of the kind.  Though apparently, the U.K.’s Guardian, which broke this faux-scandal, is unrelenting in its desire to scale the heights of self-congratulatory hyperbole.  Consider this from Glenn Greenwald, the author of the piece:  ”What this court order does that makes it so striking is that it’s not directed at any individual…it’s collecting the phone records of every single customer of Verizon business and finding out every single call they’ve made…it’s indiscriminate and it’s sweeping.”

Having labored as a police reporter in the days before the Patriot Act, I can assure all there has always been a stage before the wiretap, a preliminary process involving the capture, retention and analysis of raw data.  It has been so for decades now in this country.  The only thing new here, from a legal standpoint, is the scale on which the FBI and NSA are apparently attempting to cull anti-terrorism leads from that data.  But the legal and moral principles?  Same old stuff.

More here

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William Saletan: Chill. You can quarrel with this program, but it isn’t Orwellian. It’s limited, and it’s controlled by checks and balances.

1. It isn’t wiretapping. The order authorizes the transfer of “telephony metadata” such as the date and length of each call and which phone numbers were involved. It doesn’t include the content of calls—which is more tightly protected by the Fourth Amendment—or the identity of the callers. The targeted data are mathematical, not verbal. They’re the kind of information you’d request if you were mapping possible extensions of a terrorist or criminal network.

2. It’s judicially supervised. The leaked document is a court order. It was issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance [FISA] Court. To get the Verizon data, the FBI had to ask the court for permission. The Bush administration used to extract this kind of metadata unilaterally. The Obama administration has changed the rules to bring in the court as an overseer.

3. It’s congressionally supervised. Any senator who’s expressing shock about the program is a liar or a fool. The Senate Intelligence and Judiciary Committees have been briefed on it many times. Committee members have had access to the relevant FISA court orders and opinions. The intelligence committee has also informed all senators in writing about the program, twice, with invitations to review classified documents about it prior to reauthorization. If they didn’t know about it, they weren’t paying attention.

More here

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Marc Ambinder: Now that we have irrefutable proof that the National Security Agency collects and stores all of Verizon’s telephone records, before we can use the “s” word — “spy” — we ought to get a better sense of what the agency, which is charged, you should know, with foreign intelligence collection, uses it for. Of course, the rules are classified. They’re probably classified at a higher level than the document provided to The Guardian because they’re part of a specific compartmented NSA program that, government officials say, bears the code name “RAGTIME.”

That is, the NSA can collect the data so long as there is a good chance that it might need it for some future investigation. They can’t use the data unless there is a specific reason, a specific tip, a tip that has been — in theory, according to the rules as I understand them — certified by the attorney general.

More here

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SmartyPants: There’s an awful lot of noise out there right now about this whole NSA story. In order to balance that out a bit, here are a few things I suggest that you take the time to read. When President Obama said we need to have a conversation about the balance between security and civil liberties, he was talking about needing to confront what Josh Barro describes in: Massive Government Spying is the Result of a Public Obsessed with Eliminating Terrorism.

Ron Brownstein points to a recent poll where 85 percent of adults surveyed said it was likely that their “communications history, like phone calls, e-mails, and Internet use,” was “available for businesses, government, individuals, and other groups to access without your consent.” And the poll was taken BEFORE the NSA story broke.

More here

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Stewart Baker: Let’s start with the order. It seems to come from the court established to oversee intelligence gathering that touches the United States. Right off the bat, that means that this is not some warrantless or extrastatutory surveillance program. The government had to convince up to a dozen life-tenured members of the federal judiciary that the order was lawful. You may not like the legal interpretation that produced this order, but you can’t say it’s lawless.

The technique that squares that circle is minimization. As long as the minimization rules require that all searches of the collected data must be justified in advance by probable cause, Americans are protected from arbitrary searches. In the standard law enforcement model that we’re all familiar with, privacy is protected because the government doesn’t get access to the information until it presents evidence to the court sufficient to identify the suspects. In the alternative model, the government gets possession of the data but is prohibited by the court and the minimization rules from searching it until it has enough evidence to identify terror suspects based on their patterns of behavior.

But for those who don’t like the alternative model, the real question is “compared to what”? Those who want to push the government back into the standard law enforcement approach of identifying terrorists only by name and not by conduct will have to explain how it will allow us to catch terrorists who use halfway decent tradecraft — or why sticking with that model is so fundamentally important that we should do so even if it means more acts of terrorism at home.

More here

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124 Responses to “Facts Always Win Over Feigned Outrage”

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  2. 6 desertflower
    June 7, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    http://bobcesca.thedailybanter.com/blog-archives/2013/06/there-is-no-direct-access.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=there-is-no-direct-access

    BOOM! ATTENTION GOOGLE USERS! GG WAS LYING TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

    The Director of National Intelligence and the president himself have indicated that the Prism story published by the Washington Post included inaccuracies, but now Larry Page, the co-founder of Google, has said in explicit terms that there is no secret, clandestine “back-door” into their servers. There is no “direct access.”

    Dear Google users—

    You may be aware of press reports alleging that Internet companies have joined a secret U.S. government program called PRISM to give the National Security Agency direct access to our servers. As Google’s CEO and Chief Legal Officer, we wanted you to have the facts.

    First, we have not joined any program that would give the U.S. government—or any other government—direct access to our servers. Indeed, the U.S. government does not have direct access or a “back door” to the information stored in our data centers. We had not heard of a program called PRISM until yesterday.

    Second, we provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law. Our legal team reviews each and every request, and frequently pushes back when requests are overly broad or don’t follow the correct process. Press reports that suggest that Google is providing open-ended access to our users’ data are false, period.

    • 7 Ladyhawke
      June 7, 2013 at 6:29 pm

      Oh great, another opportunity (there have been so many) for me to post one of my favorite links. The country would benefit greatly if we could just get back to THE BASICS of JOURNALISM. It’s not that complicated. The media could just start by telling the truth and letting the chips fall where they may. Wow, what a concept…….

      PRINCIPLES OF JOURNALISM

      ———————————–

      1. JOURNALISM’S FIRST OBLIGATION IS TO THE TRUTH

      Democracy depends on citizens having reliable, accurate facts put in a meaningful context. Journalism does not pursue truth in an absolute or philosophical sense, but it can–and must–pursue it in a practical sense. This “journalistic truth” is a process that begins with the professional discipline of assembling and verifying facts. Then journalists try to convey a fair and reliable account of their meaning, valid for now, subject to further investigation. Journalists should be as transparent as possible about sources and methods so audiences can make their own assessment of the information. Even in a world of expanding voices, accuracy is the foundation upon which everything else is built–context, interpretation, comment, criticism, analysis and debate. The truth, over time, emerges from this forum. As citizens encounter an ever greater flow of data, they have more need–not less–for identifiable sources dedicated to verifying that information and putting it in context.

      ——————————————–

      http://www.journalism.org/resources/principles

    • 8 yardarm756
      June 7, 2013 at 6:52 pm

  3. 9 carolyn
    June 7, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Is there any way to email Lawrence? I used to be able to, but can’t find access via email. I made up an address and sent him an email, but it was returned. I think Rachel still has email accessibility and so does Rev. Al. I don’t see any address on his web page. The NBC page “Contact” doesn’t work for MSNBC…..I’ve tried. Thanks for any help.

    • 10 desertflower
      June 7, 2013 at 6:04 pm

      Facebook?

      • 11 carolyn
        June 7, 2013 at 6:15 pm

        Not on Facebook. My computer died for a couple of months last fall, and while it was gone, I found that I lived just fine without Facebook. When I tried to reopen my account, I couldn’t remember my password, I never could find it out, I went in circles, and the whole process was just too much. Then I realized I really wasn’t interested in so many people’s grandchildren’s pictures…..you can tell my age. I used it to keep up with some former students around the country, but the hassle wasn’t worth it. I use that former facebook time much more constructively now. So…..anyway, that way is closed to me.
        I emailed Rachel, she’s still easily accessible.

  5. 21 Nena20409
    June 7, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Great, UT….Brilliantly done.

  6. 22 utaustinliberal
    June 7, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    See? Perfect example. Grifters gonna grift.

  7. 24 Tally
    June 7, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    I have to say the lack of technical understanding on this on the whole “ZOMFG MAH PRIVACEEEEE” is mind boggling.

    Your phone company – let’s say, VERIZON, A PRIVATE COMPANY, has all this info already because that’s what they DO so they can send you your PHONE BILL.

    The GOVERNMENT, makes a backup copy that they CANNOT ACCESS WITHOUT the FISA court’s approval.

    So if there’s a pile of rubble from what was once a terrorist cell in…. oh, I don’t know, Syria, and they find a cell phone in the pile of rubble that has a US phone number in that cell phone’s records…. THEN they can ask for a warrant to search that backup Verizon database.

    We’d have ZERO unemployment if there were Government employees listening to everyone’s phone calls, reading everyone’s email, and looking at everyone’s web browsing history.

    If you want privacy, give up your cell phone, computer, car, bank account, JOB, and credit cards.

    • 25 swbluega
      June 7, 2013 at 6:47 pm

      As the President said in his remarks today, “…you can’t have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience.”

      You have to decide, do you want your “cake” (100% Security) or your “eat it too” (100% privacy).

    • 26 Bobfr (@Our4thEstate)
      June 7, 2013 at 6:55 pm

      I agree Tally. What I’ve witnessed over the past ~ 36 hours is just how totally clueless #NEWSTAINERS, most politicians, ALL emoprogs, etc., are when it comes to how a cell phone system, WiFi, a global positioning system, etc., work.

      Talk about a failure of education – if you’re going to use technology, you don’t have to be able to invent it or build it but you sure as hell ought to know what it is your using and not act like a surprised pre-historic cave dweller being given an iPod.

      #TrustBarack

      • 27 nathkatun7
        June 7, 2013 at 9:11 pm

        “if you’re going to use technology, you don’t have to be able to invent it or build it but you sure as hell ought to know what it is your using and not act like a surprised pre-historic cave dweller being given an iPod.”

        Bravo, Bobfr! What’s even more infuriating are the so called MSM and politicians who are using ignorance to inflame people, like me, who are equally ignorant about how modern high tech works. Instead of educating us they try to inflame us; all because they hate the Black guy in the WH.

        • 28 Bobfr (@Our4thEstate)
          June 8, 2013 at 12:24 pm

          Sadly so true, nath.

          What they could begin with is a simple question – how is it that the device you are carrying (phone, iPod, tablet, etc) receives a call, a song, an image. How was the device located so the stuff would arrive and why did it also not arrive on the device (phone, iPod, tablet, etc) of the person standing next to you. None of it is magic. The identity of the device, it’s location, and several other necessary bits of information along with whatever the content is of what is being received are all packaged in decipherable, by the device, chunks of bits. The same applies to when you send anything from your device. And, even when you are not doing anything, the device is constantly transmitting chunks of bits that say effectively ‘hey, it’s me’ and the cellular or WiFi or whatever wireless system is being used must be able to detect the strength and location of those packages because if they don’t they can’t respond with ‘hey you,’ and, they can’t ‘hand off’ the phone call or email, song, video, whatever download to another cell site, WiFi access point, etc., as you move, i.e., the mobile part of wireless mobile communication. And, for any such system to deliver the bill for service to the appropriate user of a particular device, all the necessary information for billing is linked with the various uses of the system (purchases of songs, download of movies, conversations, etc.).

          So, at the most basic level of any form of communication, location and addresses matter. And, if the system cannot detect change in location it has now way of supporting mobile communication. And, it must record all that information in order to bill accurately for services rendered. From a ‘meta-data’ perspective, just knowing a number called, how frequently it was called, duration of each call and location of each call are highly informative while not intruding into any other aspect of the identity of the caller or the content. The patterns that emerge from the analysis of that meta-data are the clues being sought.

          Similarly, emails going to or from certain IP addresses, connections to certain URLs (web pages), request for downloads of any type of content (i.e., the URL/IP address of the content) – can inform without reading the email content or knowing the identity of the person ‘clicking’ on a link to a website, or downloading content. Moreover, the constraint that was placed on those types of surveillance required that the originator was outside of the United States, i.e., surveillance of US citizens and legal US residents was out of bounds.

          As with all technology, those fundamental properties of a communication system can be (and have been) used for good and evil purposes, as you know.

      • 30 Tally
        June 8, 2013 at 12:28 pm

        OMFG YOU’RE BRILLIANT! ” if you’re going to use technology, you don’t have to be able to invent it or build it but you sure as hell ought to know what it is your using and not act like a surprised pre-historic cave dweller being given an iPod.” On of the best quotes EVER.

    • 31 nathkatun7
      June 7, 2013 at 9:03 pm

      Very well said, Tally!

  8. 32 utaustinliberal
    June 7, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    • 33 anniebella
      June 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm

      Well it doesn’t surprise me about Hayes or Maddow. And they deserve their egg in the face too. For being so easily to fall for Greenwald B.S.

  9. 34 Nena20409
    June 7, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Happy B-Day To Prince Rogers Nelson…..Jun 7, 1958

    The man has Talent unmatched today

    • 35 theo67
      June 7, 2013 at 6:24 pm

      Extremely talented.

    • 36 Linda
      June 7, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      My favorite Prince is ” If I was your girlfriend ”

      It was used for the Barack Obama Swagger video…

    • 37 Roberta in MN
      June 7, 2013 at 7:03 pm

      Thanks Neena, I love Prince, I have his albums and got tickets for my kids to see him live at the Mytrodome in one of his first big concerts. One child loved him the other not soo much (too noisy) But he is definitely one great entertainer.

  10. 38 Linda
    June 7, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    To funny……I guess they are running out of patience.

    Julie PaceVerified account ‏@jpaceDC

    Secret Service Agent to reporters: “You will be required to move to the press pen. That’s where you belong.”

  11. 40 hopefruit2
    June 7, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    • 41 pkayden
      June 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm

      Of course it makes sense. The media loves the excitement and could care less if GG is lying. Not sure if the American people care about all this drama though. This may backfire on GG.

  12. 42 lamh36
    June 7, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Since we’re talking about civil liberties and privacy, sure would love to get some national attention about this:

    Mississippi aims to curb teen pregnancy with umbilical blood law

    Mississippi will require doctors to collect umbilical cord blood from babies born to some young mothers, under a new law intended to identify statutory rapists and reduce the state’s rate of teenage pregnancy, the highest in the country.

    The measure, which takes effect on July 1 and is the first of its kind in the country, targets certain mothers who were 16 or younger at the time of conception. Under the law, doctors and midwives will be expected to retrieve umbilical cord blood in cases where the father is 21 or older or when the baby’s paternity is in question.

    Samples will be stored at the state medical examiner’s office for testing in the event that police believe the girl was the victim of statutory rape. But they will not automatically be entered into the state’s criminal DNA database.

    Supporters of the law say it offers an important new tool to prevent older men from having sex with younger girls. Critics argue, however, that it violates privacy and will do little to deter teen pregnancy.

    • 43 theo67
      June 7, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      President Obama isn’t involved in this one, so there can be no expected outrage at this REAL violation of privacy.

    • 44 desertflower
      June 7, 2013 at 6:54 pm

      I find this so offensive on so many levels. SO many levels.

  13. 45 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:21 pm

  14. 49 Alycee (@jazziz2)
    June 7, 2013 at 6:22 pm

  15. 52 hopefruit2
    June 7, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Something tells me that neither Chris Hayes nor Rachel Maddow will acknowledge any error on their part tonight. They are both way too arrogant, and might actually double down on the nonsense, or pretend they never went with the WaPo/Guardian false story.

  16. 54 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:23 pm

  17. 55 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:27 pm

  18. 56 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    OMG! nekkid protestors at palm springs airport! rotflmao {there’s a butt photo i shouldn’t post here}

    I think POTUS is off AF1.

  19. 60 hopefruit2
    June 7, 2013 at 6:30 pm

  20. 61 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    POTUS got out the plane, shook hands with the Mayor and promptly jumped into the pool. I mean, his well air conditioned beastie.

  22. 63 utaustinliberal
    June 7, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Joan Walsh is exactly what is wrong with journalism these days. Oh, so we have a Black President and she brings up MLK. What was done to MLK is NOTHING like now.

    • 64 Linda
      June 7, 2013 at 6:42 pm

      She is a liberal that never fails to get her digs in……I don’t like her at all.

    • 65 pkayden
      June 7, 2013 at 6:57 pm

      She was a huge Hilary supporter. I don’t think she’s forgiven President Obama for winning the Democratic primaries in 2008.

  23. 66 lamh36
    June 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Fuckin’ Buzzfeed bottom-feeders. Internet version of Politico.

    Buzzfeed: “Obama Loses Cool, Snaps at Staffers” (Not)
    WTF?
    Charles Johnson

    There was a little mix-up at President Obama’s speech in San Jose this morning; he didn’t have his prepared remarks at the podium.

    So Buzzfeed headlines their article like this: Obama Loses Cool, Snaps at Staffers in Speech Mixup.

    OK, folks. Watch the video above. Whoever thinks this is “snapping” is hallucinating. He didn’t even raise his voice, and he said it with a smile, in a joking manner.

    Seriously, Buzzfeed. WTF?

  24. 69 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Kerry, Gov Brown, PSP Mayor and other officials are in town. Reports of, at least one, Chinese journalist taken to hospital because of heat. AF1 delayed by incident in Santa Monica. Local florist asked for flowers created yellow rose bouquet for POTUS and red ones for President Xi.

    http://www.mydesert.com/article/20130607/NEWS01/306070004?sf13689452

  25. 70 Bobfr (@Our4thEstate)
    June 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    #TrustBarack Yet Another Lesson Why in the past 24 h

  27. 72 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    President O!

  28. 73 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:49 pm

  29. 74 prettyfoot58
    June 7, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    If the Dem base truly belonged to the Dems, and not PBO, it would be transferable to any candidate. It is not…

    .I understand what Ms Taylor is saying….I just wanted to add this tidibit

    **************

    For the record…we (Obamabots) belong to no one……..it is not some cult following…..We follow our President because we choose to…because we have faith in him…and because time and time again he has shown that he is worthy …..as Bob would say….

    #TrustBarack….he has earned it…

    as Bob would say…

  30. 75 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    very nice instagramy

    https://twitter.com/MyDesertNews/sunnylands-summit

    i’ve been told to go inside the moment the heat makes me feel uncomfortable. you have to be careful about your heat exposure out here.

  31. 76 jacquelineoboomer
    June 7, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Loved catching up on and navigating through the news today, from the right sources ~ as only found on TOD! Love how Goldie Taylor is taking ’em all on! Our UT, as well.

    Oh, and, there’s the fact that Barack Obama is still President of the United States to really make yer day! Have a great trip, Mr. President, and then hurry on back to the White House.

  33. 82 JER
    June 7, 2013 at 7:01 pm

  34. 83 yardarm756
    June 7, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    • 84 africa
      June 7, 2013 at 7:06 pm

      Misguided priorities.

    • 85 edp4bho
      June 7, 2013 at 7:34 pm

      Thanks yardarm. You’d think specifically black folks would be concerned with long fought-for rights, but I’m hearing ridiculous outrage about PBO’s drones. There’s a contingent of what I call Gaddafi-ites on local AA talk radio who stand in qeue to complain about what happened in Libya. I say- expatriate your damn selves and stand with any Libyans you can find who lament the demise of Gaddafi. Not happening, I’m sure.

  35. 86 northanger
    June 7, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    have to start getting ready for my birthday dinner. if you’re on twitter, check
    https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Sunnylands&src=hash

    The Desert Sun has a twitter list covering Sunnylands
    https://twitter.com/MyDesertNews/sunnylands-summit

  36. 91 Roberta in MN
    June 7, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Thank you UT for this awesome post. I had to work today, so I am just catching up. LOOOOVE you guys. Sanity restored. 🙂

  37. 92 desertflower
    June 7, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    114 in Palm Springs today…people not used to that kind of heat better take care! LOTS of water, shade. And more water. Nothing to mess with.

  38. 94 africa
    June 7, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Eggs on face– MSM favorite pose –

  39. 95 dotster3
    June 7, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    I hesitate to venture into this whole latest brouhaha—-not knowledgeable enough— but I see the Guardian has another leak—–will publish another top secret document. First, I would think it might be really important—-vital even—-to find out who is doing all this leaking of all these documents—–and why. This is just unbelievable to me. There are sinister forces at work here. And picking up on some reporting—–I wondered if all this had anything to do with President Obama expecting to confront (discuss with) the Chinese president this weekend on all their cyber-hacking—–that this latest mess here diminishes his argument, or position of strength. So I was wondering if the leaker was someone who was protective of China’s interests. Just thinking out loud.

    • 96 northanger
      June 7, 2013 at 7:31 pm

      I’ve heard this leakage strengthens President Xi’s position on this issue. But, what? President Xi gonna tell President Obama nahnahnah? That doesn’t seem the style of either man or what best serves this summit. imho, all this noise is a *reaction* to this summit.

    • 99 anniebella
      June 7, 2013 at 7:37 pm

      There has to be an investigation about all these leaks.

  40. 100 Liberal Librarian
    June 7, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Wait, what, I go away to do some chores and Greenwald’s house of cards come TUMBLING DOWN?! Oh, sweet sweet schadenfreude. I think this calls for a glass of wine.

  41. 108 zulu
    June 7, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    I was at the doctors office in SF todat and read an article by Nancy Martin in the San francisco magazine. It was published in dec 2012. It states how DADT would not have been inacted if it was not for get equal getting in PBO’s face. After it was repealed the LGBT/get equal community then had meetings with dreamers and XL-pipe line on how to agitate PBO. Equal was also doing sit ins in Pelosis’s office as well. In addition they claim that without Biden PBO would not have come out for mariiage equality.
    I think this is why the first lady was heckled because they feel that this is what is making changes for DADT, Dreamers, XL-pipe line. That is we made him do it. I think it is rude and that PBO already had this in the works. This is the first in 50 years that civil rights have been enacted so quickly becaus they have PBO pushing for it,
    I am so furious with this kind of sloppy thinking from the get equal people.

  42. 109 utaustinliberal
    June 7, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Greenwald’s crap is coming to light.

  43. 110 Bobfr (@Our4thEstate)
    June 7, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Ex-Microsoft Engineer: PRISM Is Highly Improbable For These Four Reasons

    This former Microsoft employee said there are four basic reasons he finds it “improbable” that PRISM can do all that the NSA documents obtained by the Post say it can.

    “Any data access is logged, monitored, audited.”

    “Any such tool would need the involvement of a lot of people which grows over time. It would be hard to do this in secrecy.”

    “Culturally, Microsoft places a lot of focus on safely handling data and only handing data to outsiders through strict process.”
    “I’ve worked in some of the systems that would have been touched and so have some friends. None of them have heard of this.”

    • 111 Bobfr (@Our4thEstate)
      June 7, 2013 at 7:31 pm

      “And now Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has done the same:

      I want to respond personally to the outrageous press reports about PRISM:

      Facebook is not and has never been part of any program to give the US or any other government direct access to our servers. We have never received a blanket request or court order from any government agency asking for information or metadata in bulk, like the one Verizon reportedly received. And if we did, we would fight it aggressively. We hadn’t even heard of PRISM before yesterday.

      When governments ask Facebook for data, we review each request carefully to make sure they always follow the correct processes and all applicable laws, and then only provide the information if is required by law. We will continue fighting aggressively to keep your information safe and secure.

      We strongly encourage all governments to be much more transparent about all programs aimed at keeping the public safe. It’s the only way to protect everyone’s civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term.”

      From the link in the above tweet ….

  44. 112 Arapaho415 (@arapaho415)
    June 7, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Was reminded yesterday that the common thread that links WaPo and the Guardian UK are Assange’s Wikileaks. (And the Manning trial began this week…)

    Add @EzraKlein (devoted hubby to our fav @AnnieLowrey) to the list of “egg-on-their-faces.” He really needs to be slapped down a notch or two. His tweets have always been on the annoying side, but nowadays he’s just insufferable (may just be me).

    And I HOPE this wakes up our lazy media (and takes down the vile GGreenwald):
    https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/343137307429314560

  45. 115 Arapaho415 (@arapaho415)
    June 7, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Reposting from yesterday.

    Janine Gibson is Guardian US’ Editor-in-Chief. So far @ggreenwald has the wool pulled over her eyes. Hopefully he’s implode next week:

  47. 118 Claire
    June 7, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    Rachel and Lawrence better have some big apologies for jumping on the bullshit bandwagon. They know if some of the idiots on fox were duped like they were they’d be beating a drum about it. They owe the POTUS an apology. They owe me an apology for being such total assholes. I hope Rev. Al calls them all out.

  48. 119 Ladyhawke
    June 7, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    NOW THERE ARE LEAKS ABOUT CYBER ATTACKS?

    Reposting ‘DESERFLOWER” post from several threads down.

    —————————————-

    This guy is a MORON. An idiot with an agenda!!

    http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/glenn-greenwald-suggests-more-revelations-are-coming-shortly?ref=fpb

    In a post on The Guardian’s website, Greenwald wrote that he’s less interested in addressing the political fallout from his previous scoops and more interested in breaking new stories, which he seemed to suggest could be imminent.

    “I don’t have time at the moment to address all of the fallout because – to borrow someone else’s phrase – I’m Looking Forward to future revelations that are coming (and coming shortly), not Looking Backward to ones that have already come,” Greenwald wrote.

    Read his entire post here.

    Here’s his actual posting at the Guardian from today

    http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/whistleblowers-and-leak-investigations

    ————————————————————–

  50. 121 desertflower
    June 7, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    My question is..now that these companies are all coming out and emphatically denying that they were part of PRISM, etc…..doesn’t this raise the question of credibility on GG and the Guardian? Would for me! What could the repercussions be for lyingGG and the paper that now has no street./ professional cred?? Was this a “twofer”???

  51. 122 gobrooklyn
    June 7, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    When I first started paying attention to politics, the left condemned Bush because much of what he did was illegal. That was the main complaint. Or so I thought. Obama’s made sure that his national security moves are LEGAL but the left has already moved the goal posts. Now I see things like ‘just because it’s legal, doesn’t mean it’s right’.

    Okay then.

    I’m confused.

  52. 123 yardarm756
    June 7, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    After careful consideration of all the factors(and 10 minutes of his show), I’ve come to a conclusion. Chris Hayes and GG are unmitigated anal orifices…………..”the result of defective sperm and a putrid egg.” 😦

  53. 124 ms103127
    June 8, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Great posts/perspectives, everyone! 😀 My first overall reaction to this was, in essence, “cool story, bro.” So, yeah, the government — like MOST (if not all) governments — has been “spying” on its citizens for years. Tell me/us something I/we don’t know….

    In my opinion, especially in this day and age, this caliber of preemptive preparedness is a necessary “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” tactic/strategy. Just imagine if the government (especially PBO’s government) DIDN’T do this stuff, and *gasp* SOMETHING HAPPENS! The public/Congressional outcry of “why didn’t you do any of this” would drown out the pens frantically scribbling out another draft of his Articles of Impeachment.

    Don’t get me wrong. I can understand that there are a variety of opinions/reactions/criticisms on this issue. There definitely needs to be legal/Congressional/common sense “checks and balances” here to prevent this becoming Orwellian at some point in the unpredictable future. For example, we elect a future president with a psychological hatred of the color salmon pink. He/she decides to specifically target for extermination all people that have purchased items depicting the color salmon pink. Imagine what this would do to the salmon/fashion community. 😀


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