Chat away

Eknoor Kaur, 3, stands with her father Guramril Singh during a candlelight vigil outside Newtown High School before an interfaith vigil with President Obama, Dec. 16

Members of the Sikh community hold a candlelight vigil outside Newtown high school (The Guardian) – thank you Xtine

325 Responses to “Chat away”

  1. 1 Betsy
    December 17, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Good Morning folks. Is it true about Richard Engel missing?

  2. 14 a4alice
    December 17, 2012 at 10:00 am

    yay. new thread. thanks chips.

  3. 15 taiping1
    December 17, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Chips, Thanks!

  4. December 17, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Saw on Twitter that Richard Engel and someone else from his team is missing in Syria.

  5. 21 jacquelineoboomer
    December 17, 2012 at 10:06 am

    May I re-post this, from the bottom of the last thread …

    Thanks for the full transcript of the President’s remarks, Chips. I was looking for it last night. Can’t bear to watch him giving his speech, again, so I’d like to just read it.

    The dominoes are falling … the President’s words have given others courage. Don Lemon on CNN went off on a several-minute rant this morning, responding to a pundit who said gun violence is down, yada yada yada. He said that was an insult to the victims’ families, and mentioned he gets tears in his eyes every time he talks from Newtown, and people there have been crying for more than 24 hours straight. Not sure if he had that planned to say or not, my trust level for the media is so low, but he carried it off, so I’ll give him a well done.

    • 22 jacquelineoboomer
      December 17, 2012 at 10:09 am

      Yeah, and outgoing Joe Lieberman is now quoting Don Lemon. Joe is a domino who won’t help the others stand up – he had time for that the entire time he was in Congress – now he’s quoting what he and McCain tried to do. #FAIL

  6. 25 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Mea culpa TOD’ers on the last thread going haywire. I asked Chips to delete a double post totally forgetting that the wp goes apeshit crazy if a post is deleted.

  7. 28 FiredUpInCA
    December 17, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Joe Scarborough isn’t the only one seeing a need for change:

    “Times are a changin’

    One of my very conservative friends here in wingnuttia actually posted on FB that every American should listen to the POTUS’ speech last night. Is it possible they finally stared into the abyss long enough?”

    “One of my conservative friends who has opposed Obama every step of the way also had a different tune last night. His son was one of the kids in the school at the time of the shooting. He watched President Obama’s speech in person last night and I believe was even spotted on CNN. We have sparred on and off for better part of 4 years over politics. To say were disagreed on most issues is an understatement.

    –“As you all know the terrible tragedy I, and my family have endured has been a very tough road for us. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank each and every one of you for your kind and heart-felt words of support. I now look at life in an entirely new meaning. I never thought I would even say this, but I am very proud of President Barak Obama for being able to open his heart to us and give us such a powerful speech. I am eternally sorry for ever bashing the man for some of his policies. Now mind you, I might not agree with some of the things he has proposed, but this man is a good man, and to be able to bring words of hope and inspiration to me, takes on a whole new meaning.[…]”


    I hope this is happening all over U.S.

    • 29 0388jojothecat
      December 17, 2012 at 10:57 am

      In the past twelve years there has been a fixation of the date 12/21/12 for being a date that the world is coming to an end. I believe that this month and 12/14/12 has changed THIS country and the world is watching. The senseless deaths of these children has shaken the this country to it’s senses. It hurts me that those 20 children had to lose their lives to make adults act responsibility and begin to protect our children from this domestic terrorism.

      • 30 Rain
        December 17, 2012 at 2:06 pm

        Well said, JOJO…I was awake most of the night thinking about that. I’d like to believe this will be the end of the world AS WE KNOW IT…as a cold, savage society, and the beginning of something newer, stronger, and more love based.

      • 31 jackiegrumbacher
        December 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm

        Jojo, I hope and pray that you’re right. We’re coming to a point in this country where we either change or become so insensitive to brutal murder that we lose our humanity. I think this is where you begin to see the dividing line between those who are fully human and can change and those who are so far gone in their obsessions with guns, greed and self-righteousness that they don’t care who gets injured as long as they have their way. Right now we’re seeing the rise of humanity as people take in the horror of Newtown think of something besides themselves. Priorities are starting to shift because the lives of children –even their children–hang in the balance. That’s when the president’s words hit home–do we really want to say we can’t even try to change because the politics is too hard? Is that what we really want to be as a people? If you can look in the mirror and say, “yes the politics is too hard” then you have failed your children and your own humanity.

    • 32 carla4obama
      December 17, 2012 at 11:50 am

      I love the term WINGNUTTIA.
      And the conservative father who use to bash our President for saying ” am eternally sorry for ever bashing the man for some of his policies. Now mind you, I might not agree with some of the things he has proposed, but this man is a good man, and to be able to bring words of hope and inspiration to me, takes on a whole new meaning.[…]”
      Well you now see our President as we here on TOD have seen him for a long time. This is a good man, and we are lucky to have him…he is a gift to us.

      • 33 jackiegrumbacher
        December 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm

        And Carla, a more deeply spiritual man has yet to serve in the White House. Those who have vilified him for being Godless, or “unchristian” have shown the true darkness of their own souls. They truly don’t have eyes to see or ears to see, let alone brains to think with.

    • 34 isonprize
      December 17, 2012 at 12:05 pm

      What an intensely selfish man. It took him almost losing HIS own child to get it? NOW, he looks at life in an entirely new meaning. I guess “better late than never.”

      I hope that he REALLY heard PBO say that ALL of the children are OUR children. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THE CHILDREN.

      Marvin Gaye – Save the Babies (1971) from the ‘What’s Going On’ album

      • 35 jackiegrumbacher
        December 17, 2012 at 3:02 pm

        You know what, Isonprize? I’ll take someone who’s see the light any day over someone so bullheaded they’re blinded by stupidity. Somewhere back in my Sunday school days, I learned that there’s more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who is saved then all the multitude of the blessed (or something like that)… If this father can finally see and in doing so will be part of the solution and not the problem, then more power to him.

    • 36 daisydem
      December 17, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      OMG, I have been holding back the tears, putting up a barrier, not wanting to deal with the emotions of this, but your friend’s words have broken down that barrier and I am crying. Thank him for me, for seeing President Obama as he truly is, and I wish him peace in his time of sorrow. You see when I was six and seven and really all my growing up years, I escaped into books as my home life, while not unloving, was sometimes volatile. I felt safe at school. There were teachers who nurtured me. School was fun, learning was awesome, it was quiet, and stable. I felt safe at school.

      • 37 FiredUpInCA
        December 17, 2012 at 12:55 pm

        Just want to be clear, those aren’t friends of mine. Those are friends of commenters at Daily Kos. I just thought the comments would be of interest to folks here.

        We all know our President is one-of-a-kind and once-in-a-lifetime. It’s heartening to see some hard-headed and hard-hearted ideologues are finally starting to get it too. I would have preferred that they had this epiphany under less horrific circumstances, but I’ll take it any way I can get it.

    • December 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm

      Wow! So encouraging, but it’s a shame it took something like this.

  8. 39 betseyc
    December 17, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Good morning, everyone. I’m so thankful, as always, that I had this place full of humanity and emotion, facts and determination to come to all weekend, and especially that I could share last night with all of you. I’ve been thinking about something that I haven’t seen discussed in all that’s been said about the NRA over the years. Maybe it’s just so obvious it doesn’t need discussing. While there’s enormous, and completely justified, rage directed at the NRA, that organization is the mouthpiece of the arms industry. That industry is losing customers elsewhere in the world. Even though it doesn’t seem it, there are fewer wars around the world, and many of the ones that are being waged don’t need the kind of weaponry the manufacturers are used to providing. Many countries have banned or limited guns. Many societies simply don’t “revere” them they way the US does. The arms industry is very quiet and very, very powerful. And all they care about is having enough people buy guns, for whatever reason, and at whatever price to society. But they can’t nakedly lobby congress to create guns for nothing.

    So what to do? Form an organization designed to create a market. Hire certifiable lunatics to run it. Convince a white population in decline that the power they feel slipping from them is directly related to their second amendment rights to bear arms. Convince them that this is the greatest threat to their liberty. Get this group so ginned up that their energy literally swamps the political landscape. Make arming more and more people the answer to every gun related situation. I have relatives like this. They have hunting guns. I can’t imagine they would stockpile guns, or be seriously interested in buying combat weapons, but they are at least partly convinced that the government is about to come for them, and that having the right to get those guns keeps them safe. And the “Christian” churches they go to feed this paranoia.

    Of course it’s not just people like my relatives. Nor is the bottomless cynicism of the arms industry reflected only in the US. Someone here posted a truly sickening picture of the pope, in all his ermine regalia, looking through the scope of some huge gun, and the news that the vatican is the biggest investor in Beretta arms. I left the church a very long time ago, and don’t expect much of the Vatican, but I can still be astounded.

    • 40 sherijr
      December 17, 2012 at 10:27 am

      excellent insight betseyc.. I hadn’t even thought of the arms industry & the perfect setup they have with the NRA fronting for them.

    • 41 dotster3
      December 17, 2012 at 10:37 am

      The NRA does the arms industry’s bidding. When I was making phone calls to Iowa pre-election, I ran into a rural voter, a hunter and a NRA member. He was inclined to vote for Obama but asked about his fear that Obama was going to make all guns illegal, a message he was getting from NRA newsletters—–a fear message and appearing with increasing hysteria and frequency as the election approached—–that members needed to stockpile and hide their weapons from the fed. agents coming for all their guns, even their hunting rifles. Buy more guns, more ammunition! This is the kind of junk that has been going on. And I saw that there were huge gun sales once again this past weekend after the tragedy in Ct. The NRA and the arms industry—-have done great damage to the psyche and mental health in this country.

      • 42 0388jojothecat
        December 17, 2012 at 11:01 am

        The killer’s mother most likely received those newsletters and took them to heart. She had not owned those weapons before 2008 according to the media. It is unfortunate that intelligent people can be so duped into fearing a man like President Obama without any evidence that he intended of taking ANYONE’s guns and how stupid that sounds.

      • 43 jackiegrumbacher
        December 17, 2012 at 3:04 pm

        Yes, dotster, it’s sick. These aren’t guns or trophies, they’re weapons of destruction and terror.

  9. December 17, 2012 at 10:20 am

    It is surreal, absurd, ludicrous, I don’t have the words to imagine Romney as president dealing with this. Thank God, we do not have to.

  10. December 17, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Good morning everyone! On vacation after the New Year!

  11. December 17, 2012 at 10:21 am

    On vacation till after the New Year, please delete previous post Chips. Good morning again, have a Bless day!

  12. 53 Nena20409
    December 17, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Winston Churchill was famously quoted to have said that Americans would do the right thing after having exhausted everything else….. paraphrasing, of course.

    Pres Obama was truly brilliant last night. Just like his marriage equality statements in May of this year. This president per what I have seen since 2004, has a steadiness in him. His words are always measured. He didn’t mention guns last night because, there was No Need. Those obsessive about that have Nothing. Nil. Zilch. Nada. Zero. None. Please don’t get me wrong, Children dying or 32K killed in 2011 due to guns are not equal to anything else.

    It is up to Us to follow with action.

  13. December 17, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Good morning Chips and wonderful TOD Family. I am so emotional. It is so hard to get routine things done.This is going to be so hard. We must not let this go. No more. Thank you for this place and for all who come here. God bless everyone!

    Now to try to do laundry.

    • 59 HZ
      December 17, 2012 at 11:51 am

      Good Morning mtmarilyn. (((((((((((((((( Lot of loving ones to you dear and precious family))))))))))))))) Do a little at a time. I could not sleep, so I was up at 5:00am this morning. Got up and said a prayer, went down and turned lights off, and ground some decaf.

      Lit some candles downstairs, move a couple of candles holders on table. Then came upstairs and prayed for POTUS and the families in Newtown. Broke down when I went to my old office where I did my school work(now a lovely sitting room) thinking of all of the students, great principals, board members, supintendents, beautiful school staff who gave me so much comfort and support. Let your emotions go where you feel most comfortable in that space.

      Then I did a little dusting and by then the sun came up, and I was singing a hymn and asking God to please have mercy on all of us, and give us loving hands, hearts, and feelings to move into a space where we can heal and help our beautiful young people heal and feel safe.

      I did cry for the beautiful principal and teachers who will not be at their school when the children return. We must remember them and lift up all teachers, parents, principals, and school staffs to be strong, calm, loving, watchful of the children’s emotional state, and remember to say , sing a prayer in your own belief. Just speak kind, loving, and let power come into your words and space as you speak.

      Just take your time mtmarilyn and take the moments that you need to rest your emotions, but remember that we are all here for each other and we have a wonderful president who loves us and will do his part no matter what the naysayers want to put out into the space of goodness.

      ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( We Are The TOD Family and we Have Faith and Hope)))))))))))))))))))))))

  14. December 17, 2012 at 10:32 am

    And Richard Engle, who I am certain works for the US Government, gets behind enemy lines and into places nobody else does.
    My point is, TE US State Dept would not approve his travels unless he gave them a briefing or maybe something even more Black.
    At any rate, I hope he is ok!

    • 61 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 3:20 pm

      Given the suspicions of so many in that region of US spies and the like, it might not be wise to put ideas into their heads about Richard Engel or any other American who travels in the region, and their purpose there.

  15. 62 a4alice
    December 17, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Seeing that the last thread was so short I brought this over. I tweeted and emailed my senate peeps over the weekend and I think today at lunch I’ll try calling their offices to put in a word to help Feinstein on her gun bill. I also threw in some of the ideas that we all have been talking about. I’m telling you this not to tootle a toot my horn but to tell you how fast it is to do with Linda’s elected official finder, she really makes it easy.

    Here’s the list of elected officials from Linda’s site: http://www.whatisworking.com/2011/05/contact-congress-address-phone-twitter.html

    I’d encourage anyone to give their elected official a ring or an email or a tweet – let them know how you feel about gun control

    Update: I just emailed my entire personal email list. regardless of their political persuasion. I want everyone I know to be as resolute as I am to make this happen it’s just time to change this.

  16. 63 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 10:37 am

  17. 64 Don
    December 17, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Seems as though all the mice have gone into hiding.

  18. 66 xtine
    December 17, 2012 at 10:43 am

    [Pardon me if this has already been posted. Form EJ Dionne]:

    […..] And we will have to avoid the paralysis induced by those who cast every mass shooting as the work of one deranged individual and never ever the result of flawed policies. We must beware of those who invoke complexity not to further understanding but to encourage passivity and resignation.

    […..] After mass shootings, it’s always said we must improve our mental-health system and the treatment of those who may be prone to violence. Of course we should. But this noble sentiment is too often part of a strategy to evade any action on guns themselves.

    Not this time. Americans are not the only people in the world who confront mental-health problems. We are the only country that regularly experiences horrors of this sort. The difference, as the writer Garry Wills has said, is that the United States treats the gun as a secular god, immune to rational analysis and human intervention.

    We must depose the false deity. We must act now to curb gun violence, or we never will.


  19. 68 Don
    December 17, 2012 at 10:48 am

    With his speech last night, President Obama has changed the course of our country’s history in how we will deal with guns and gun owners going forward.

  20. December 17, 2012 at 10:59 am

    The White House video is up, better quality:

  21. 74 vcprezofan2
    December 17, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Just noticed this thread while on the way out. Back later. Hold each other close.

    • 75 vcprezofan2
      December 17, 2012 at 11:58 am

      Can’t leave as contractor showed up with a friend to remove the old bathtub, sink, fridge, etc. etc. (for a price of course) and they are blocking me in. I’m sticking my nose in to keep it occupied while they load his truck.

  22. December 17, 2012 at 11:03 am

    I would appreciate it if all you lovely people would help me get this post out there: President Obama starts with the “why.”

    You know I don’t usually do this. But this one feels really important to me. Thanks.


  23. December 17, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Good morning all – I read the transcript of our President’s words last night at the Newtown memorial. For me it was the best speech he has given and I realized that with him as President we do have hope that change will now occur on banning assault weapons and working on gun control laws. I could feel the determination he has and the deep feelings he has for his country. If Mitt had been elected there would be no hope that anything regarding gun control would change. I am feeling sad but so hopeful for this to come true. We are now responsible to help that huge effort along. I know that we TODers always knew this, but now perhaps the media and a good few on the other side recognize the need for work on these laws. When and if those on the other side that we have not always agreed with begin to see the light, we must encourage that behavior. We are going to have to swallow a lot of bile while some of them are making their statements, but we have to always keep our eyes on the prize.

  24. 87 xtine
    December 17, 2012 at 11:07 am

    [OT, no surprise here!]:

    Haley Picks Scott for Senate

    South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) has chosen Rep. Tim Scott (R-SC) to replace Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) in the United States Senate, the New York Times reports.

    “The move will make Mr. Scott the first black senator from the South since the late 19th century.”


    • 88 dotster3
      December 17, 2012 at 11:20 am

      And another religious extremist and RWNJ on every single issue. Same, same, same.

    • 89 Bill
      December 17, 2012 at 11:37 am

      South Carolina will now have two “confirmed bachelor” Republican Senators.

      • 90 4morefor44
        December 17, 2012 at 11:48 am

        bahhh! spit-take on that one! these closeted (yes, assuming that) right wing nuts jobs must have so much inner turmoil…no wonder they’re so screwed in the head. the truth will set you free, my friends!

    • 91 anniebella
      December 17, 2012 at 5:27 pm

      This move by the Tea Party Governor won’t change black people minds about the Republican Party, not one bit.

      • 92 theo67
        December 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm

        I’m thinking it won’t change the minds of any thinking people. The Tea Party is in it’s last throes – the sooner it dies, the better for everyone. There is not one positive thing about that group. And all those who thought it was about taxes or smaller government were delusional – given that the same month they formed, their taxes were lowered by this President and government has grown at the slowest pace in decades under President Obama. They are full of it, and we all know it.

  25. 93 xtine
    December 17, 2012 at 11:12 am

    Chafee May Run for Re-Election as a Democrat

    Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee (I) told the AP that he’s considering joining the Democratic Party to help his chances of winning a second term.

    Chafee said that “he shares many views with Democrats and that joining a major party might make it easier to raise money for the 2014 campaign. He said there’s no timetable for his decision but he is actively raising money to run for re-election, which he said is a ‘good indication’ of his plans.”


    • 94 Don
      December 17, 2012 at 11:38 am

      I’m always weary of people that switch political parties; whatever you are is what you are, it’s in your DNA, just like your eye color.

      • December 17, 2012 at 1:19 pm

        I don’t agree, Don. The strongest, most reliable volunteers at our local Dems office grew up in GOP households and switched to Dems. They’re like any truly converted people, more passionate than most people who grew up Dem. There are fair-weather converts, mind you, but we can’t make blanket statements about all people who switch. I welcome anyone who genuinely believes the Dems are the better choice, no matter what their pedigree is.

      • 96 nathkatun7
        December 17, 2012 at 5:58 pm

        Don, I do not agree with you at all. Look at how Ronald Reagan turned out. He was a New Deal Democrat, now he is worshiped as a saint by the right wingers in the GOP. When I was in Oregon, Sen. Wayne Moss, a former Republican who became a Democrat, was the leading voice against the war in Vietnam. I still consider him one of the most ethical and principled Senators in my lifetime.

    • 97 cos
      December 17, 2012 at 11:53 am

      His first mistake was to express his intentions openly as to why he may run as a Democrat. Respectfully, Arlen specter did the same and I think it hurt him in winning.

  26. 98 Ladyhawke
    December 17, 2012 at 11:12 am


    No more silence on gun limits

    By Dick Durbin


    We must institute reasonable, common-sense limits, such as barring those with a history of mental instability, those with a history of violent crime or adjudged dangerous and subject to restraining orders, and those whose names have been placed on a terrorist watch list from owning weapons.

    And those “straw purchasers” who are literally fencing for drug gangs as well as the gun dealers who look the other way must be dealt with firmly.

    Certain classes of weapons that are strictly military and have no useful purpose in sport, hunting or self-defense should not be legally sold.

    Magazine clips with more than 10 rounds should be prohibited from civilian use.

    No one should be allowed to purchase more than two firearms a month.

    And those who own firearms that are within the reach of children should have protective locks on their weapons.

    What holds us back are political organizations that are well-funded, well-organized and determined to resist even reasonable limitations. There is a close political parallel between the gridlock in Washington on dealing with our economy and national debt and the eerie silence in Congress as the list of horrific gun crimes grows by the day.

    Too many of my colleagues just shrug their shoulders when gun issues come to the floor for a vote. They have made Grover Norquist-like pledges and feel duty-bound to vote “right” on every score card issue.



    • 99 a4alice
      December 17, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    • 100 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 3:26 pm

      It’s unbelievable that people with “a history of mental instability, those with a history of violent crime or adjudged dangerous and subject to restraining orders, and those whose names have been placed on a terrorist watch list” are allowed to buy weapons whose only intent is to kill humans! Why would someone need a gun unless they intend to use it at some point – against another human being?

  27. 101 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 11:13 am

  28. 102 xtine
    December 17, 2012 at 11:15 am

    [Good grief!]:

    Microsoft Looks to Political Strategist to Battle Google

    The New York Times profiles former Clinton strategist Mark Penn show is now in charge of “strategic and special projects” at Microsoft and “much of his job has involved efforts to trip up Google, which Microsoft has failed to dislodge from its perch atop the lucrative Internet search market.”

    “The campaigns by Mr. Penn, 58, a longtime political operative known for his brusque personality and scorched-earth tactics, are part of a broader effort at Microsoft to give its marketing the nimbleness of a political campaign, where a candidate can turn an opponent’s gaffe into a damaging commercial within hours. They are also a sign of the company’s mounting frustration with Google after losing billions of dollars a year on its search efforts, while losing ground to Google in the browser and smartphones markets and other areas.”


    • 103 Japa21
      December 17, 2012 at 11:18 am

      Well, if he is as successful as he has been in the past, Microsoft just threw a lot of money away.

    • 105 Don
      December 17, 2012 at 11:25 am

      Double Good Grief, I’ll be glad when the entire Clinton cabal gets lost. If it isn’t Penn, it’s someone else from the Clinton crowd reaching out from the darkness trying to chase a dollar.

      • 106 jacquelineoboomer
        December 17, 2012 at 11:29 am

        *reaching out from the darkness*

        So true for so many of ’em.

        • 107 Don
          December 17, 2012 at 11:49 am

          They all seem to like walk around with a toothpick in their mouths and a deck of cards in their hands.

          • 108 jacquelineoboomer
            December 17, 2012 at 11:53 am

            Which would be fine, I guess, but then they open their mouths and talk. Rendell’s another bloviator I am sick of, and wish would get off the national stage.

            • 109 Don
              December 17, 2012 at 11:56 am

              And when they do open thier mouths they never fully one hundred percent back President Obama, it’s alway 98%. They hold back the remaining 2% just to tease.

              • 110 jacquelineoboomer
                December 17, 2012 at 11:59 am

                Right. (You were being kind, methinks, with even giving some of them the 98% rating.) And they want to hold onto their previous roles, just in case they’re required to come back and save the party or work for some other candidate. Which, of course, never happens, because they’re has-beens. #FORWARD

      • 111 theo67
        December 17, 2012 at 3:28 pm

        If it’s not the Clinton crowd, then it’s the Bush crowd.

    • 112 4morefor44
      December 17, 2012 at 12:00 pm

      gotta wonder why all “the news” channels and now republicans like gingrich and others are pushing hillary clinton so hard right for 2016. they did the same thing in the early 2000s trying to make her “inevitable.” her team of penn, lanny davis, howard wolfson and others was horrendous. so again, why is newt and the other nut jobs pushing her so hard right now? i have my answers.

    • December 17, 2012 at 1:25 pm

      They hired Mark Penn awhile ago. Apparently his ads slamming Google aren’t playing well with people. He’s a has been, surely, but his messaging skills aren’t effective. Microsoft is desperate to overcome Google as the search engine of choice. There’s only one way to do that: be the better product. Microsoft hasn’t been the better product in a long time.

      • 115 theo67
        December 17, 2012 at 3:43 pm

        I would buy a product from a company that focused on how their product is superior and would benefit me, not from a company that only talked about how another product is bad. Telling me another product is bad, tells me nothing about whether your product is good or better?

  29. 116 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 11:15 am

  30. 117 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 11:16 am

  31. December 17, 2012 at 11:18 am

  32. 123 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 11:30 am

    This is Tim Scott, the new senator from S.C., as crazy as retiring DeMint—–wanted to impeach Obama.

  33. 132 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 11:35 am

  34. 133 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 11:38 am

    I see news that Obama/Boehner are meeting currently on fiscal cliff.

  35. 134 Don
    December 17, 2012 at 11:41 am

    I hope Boehner accepts the life vest President Obama has thrown out to him.

  36. 135 proudmemberofglobalzero
    December 17, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Did anyone else hear Ezra say that “I am not a fan of banning assault weapons?” My tweet to him was, Not in favor of assault weapons ban then strap one on and get your tush over to Afghanistan and help out

  37. December 17, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Let’s send our support to Sen. Frank Lautenberg, who will introduce legislation in the next Congress to ban the sale of high-capacity magazines.


    email: http://lautenberg.senate.gov/contact/

    phone: (202) 224-3224
    fax: (202) 228-4054

    • 151 jacquelineoboomer
      December 17, 2012 at 12:18 pm

      I can see that as an exhibit at some future Barack H. Obama Presidential Library and Museum, after one of two of them get built following his second term. There are “whiteboard messages” to and from him, all over the world, which should be captured and kept.

  38. 152 jacquelineoboomer
    December 17, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    The photo of members of the Sikh community with candles in their hands is a glory to behold. Signifies so much.

  39. December 17, 2012 at 12:21 pm

  40. 157 PrayerWarriorforObama
    December 17, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Good day everyone. Today is the first of a seven-day holiday break for me and I did the unthinkable – I turned on The View. I tend to listen to rational speakers and unfortunately, in my humble opinion, Elizabeth H does not fit into that category when she opens her mouth, and so I avoid that programme when I am home. I turned it on today to find out the rescheduled time for the Babara W and PBO-First Lady’s interview.

    Andrew Cuomo, the ABC reporter, (I hope I have his name correct) was on giving his views on the Connecticut shootings. This guy is unbelievable. He completely discarded the role guns play in these massacres. According to him, it’s not the issue of guns, but a culture of crime that is the problem in the USA. In other words, do not blame the horrifying murders of those little ones on guns.

    Now, what irked me is the way the ladies on The View (with the exception of Joy) swallowed every deliberate distorted idea he was spewing out; it’s as if he was a PRO for the NRA, and his job was to deflect scrutiny from the evil of guns. He went on to imply that the carnage that occurs so regularly in the USA does not occur in other countries although they have mentally ill persons and guns, so it had to be the culture of crime that is prevalent in your country.

    So these are my questions: What drives this culture of crime that he was so passionate about? Isn’t it the easy availability and accessibility of fire arms? What weapon has been used in all of these atrocities? Aren’t they guns? So why is he advocating that the issue of gun use in these crimes is irrelevant? Is he a mouthpiece for the NRA?

    In one of my early comments on this blog, I noted that if I was a US citizen, I would write a book entitled: Postmodern Phenomenon: How America’s 44th President Exposed the Stupidity of its Main Stream Media. Listening to Cuomo today made me regret I do not have the authority to engage in such literary exercise. I hope someone on this rational medium does take up the challenge.

    • December 17, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      One fallacy- other countries DON’T have guns. Other countries have strict gun control. Maybe the culture of violence is fed by the fact that guns are everywhere. Perhaps if we made a start toward getting rid of them the culture would change.t

    • 159 dotster3
      December 17, 2012 at 12:38 pm

      I also saw that disgusting discussion—–I was waiting for Cuomo to flash his NRA badge. And he gave completely misleading information. Other countries have a minimum number of gun crimes because they have strict gun laws. It was a horrific and misleading segment.

    • 160 Bill R.
      December 17, 2012 at 12:53 pm

      Andrew Cuomo is at the Governor of NY. Chris Cuomo is a report who was on the VIEW.

      • 161 HZ
        December 17, 2012 at 1:50 pm

        And remember Chris Cuomo is the brother of Gov. Andrew Cuomo. Chris Cuomo was relentless in his comments. No respect for the manner in which Ms. Walters handled the conversation. Remove them with my remote and went on writing my letter to Senators. HZ

    • 162 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 4:12 pm

      So – their answer is to throw more people in jails, coincidentally pocketing profits as they fill up all those private prisons that are not yet to capacity? There was another idiot on NPR this morning, spouting all sorts of stats about crime having gone down in the last decade, and other such nonsense, saying that it proves that guns aren’t the problem. I hope they can look at the funerals of all those children and adults that will happen this week and sleep at night.

    • 163 Chi
      December 17, 2012 at 6:44 pm

      Just pulled up the video clip Prayerwarrior…

      Shame on Chris Cuomo…

      He was pushing so much and was visibly irritated when Joy Behar contradicted his every pro gun stance…


      These so-called Democrats shilling for the NRA and the right to wield killing weapons, are despicable – they think that fueling fear in Americans and then advocating armed guards at our schools will do the trick…

  41. December 17, 2012 at 12:27 pm

  42. December 17, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Good morning TOD. Haven’t had time to do much posting or reading here lately. Work has exploded. However, I did want to express how proud I am of our President, especially in the way he has handled this horrible tragedy. I listened to every single word of his speech last night and was in total agreement with everything he said. He is such a warm, kind and insightful person. We are so blessed to have him as our President.

  43. December 17, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    While it will be hard for any gun control bill to get GOP votes, it will also be very difficult to get votes from Senate Democrats who face reelection in red states in 2014. And they are legion. Sens. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Mary Landrieu (D-La.), Mark Pryor (D-Ark.), Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.), Tim Johnson (D-S.D.) and Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) are all up in two years and will be very tough votes to get. And that doesn’t include Democratic senators in pro-gun swing states like Mark Udall in Colorado and Jeanne Shaheen in New Hampshire. In fact, Reid himself comes from a pro-gun state, and his supporters actively sought the NRA’s endorsement in his 2010 reelection bid. If those red state Democrats vote for a bill, it will be in large part because of Reid’s leadership and because he took the leap with them.


    • December 17, 2012 at 12:44 pm

      The above is a quote from the article, not my words.

    • 168 FiredUpInCA
      December 17, 2012 at 1:05 pm

      It seems like a no-brainer: Ban semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines for civilians.

      Those are the guns and ammo typically implicated in inflicting massive injuries and fatalities. For centuries, hunters we’re able to hunt game without them. So let’s turn the page, having seen how much anguish they inflict. Let the government declare amnesty and buy them back.

      It seems like a no-brainer.

      And yet.

      “Magazines that fed bullets into the primary firearm used to kill 26 children and adults at a Connecticut school would have been banned under state legislation that the National Rifle Association and gunmakers successfully fought.[…]

      A proposal in March 2011 would have made it a felony to possess magazines with more than 10 bullets and required owners to surrender them to law enforcement or remove them from the state. Opponents sent more than 30,000 e-mails and letters to state lawmakers as part of a campaign organized by the NRA and other gun advocates, said Robert Crook, head of the Hartford- based Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen, which opposed the legislation.

      “The legislators got swamped by NRA emails,” said Betty Gallo, who lobbied on behalf of the legislation for Southport- based Connecticut Against Gun Violence. “They were scared of the NRA and the political backlash.”


      This legislation would have most likely prevented what happened on Friday in Connecticut.

      What a great victory you achieved there NRA. Way to go Connecticut gun activists.

      Are you ready now to re-think your position?

    • 170 jackiegrumbacher
      December 17, 2012 at 3:34 pm

      We will have to change the equation, making it more politically risky to NOT vote for gun legislation than to vote for it. The NRA has held all the power until now. This whole turning point is about changing the dynamics of power so it rests once again with the people and not the lobbyists.

    • 172 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 4:14 pm

      Yes – the right wing has already started to appear on shows talking about tinkering at the edges, but no real legislation, and that people shouldn’t over-react. They are heartless and shameless and totally without integrity or love for their fellow citizens – even the most innocent and defenseless.

  44. December 17, 2012 at 12:43 pm

  45. 174 Rita
    December 17, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Good Morning, everyone. Today is the day that our President gets formally re-elected by the electoral college.


  46. 176 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    A disgrace, another gun goofball in the senate

  47. 177 AJ
    December 17, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Has the Barbara Walters interview with PBO and Mrs. Obama been rescheduled yet?

    • 178 dotster3
      December 17, 2012 at 1:27 pm

      No, and it sounded today like it was not going to be rescheduled, as Walters said on The View that she wanted the public to see this interview and was sad it had to be cancelled—–understandably because of the horror in Ct. No mention of a future airing.

      • 179 theo67
        December 17, 2012 at 4:17 pm

        I saw a partial list of gotcha questions she had on her cheat sheet in one of Pete Souza’s pictures – I don’t think we’re missing too much. It would have been lovely to see President and Mrs Obama, but not at the expense of letting more right wing talking points into the atmosphere. The important recognition of the Syrian representatives was shown around the world, and that was the important part.

    • 180 anniebella
      December 17, 2012 at 5:06 pm

      I will send Barbara a email and ask her when will the interview she did with POTUS and FLOTUS be shown. I will tell her that I want to see it.

  48. 181 Don
    December 17, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Scott’s inner turmoil will be his undoing.

    • 182 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 4:19 pm

      You’re right – he has no reason for the amount of hate he’s spewing, apart from the fact that it’s self-hate and has no place else to go but out into the world. We need less of that.

  49. 183 PrayerWarriorforObama
    December 17, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Thank you Bill R for the correction.

  50. December 17, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Something I wonder about, too.

    Why is the shooter always male?

    http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/why_is_the_shooter_always_male/ via @Salon

    • 185 Don
      December 17, 2012 at 1:00 pm

      My sense is that men act outwardly and women act inward.

    • 186 dotster3
      December 17, 2012 at 1:25 pm

      I tend to go with the guns as penis extensions reasoning that was mentioned the other day. Lots of male insecurity. I wish they would just stick to buying big trucks as a remedy instead.

    • 187 Bill R.
      December 17, 2012 at 2:40 pm

      Men have the hormones for aggression. Biology has a lot to do with it.

    • 188 Bill R.
      December 17, 2012 at 2:58 pm

      Just to add, when I was a mental health crisis and commitment specialist, the mentally disturbed people I saw who were escalating towards violence were nearly always male. Male and female both get paranoid and have transitory and chronic mental illness, but the ones who are inclined to act it out with aggression are nearly always male. And I believe male biology has a lot to do with it.

  51. 189 donna dem 4 obama
    December 17, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    In reading some of the tweets and comments on the Internet since Friday I’m starting to sense an all or nothing buildup in the gun control debate. It is very hard feeling the way we do to look at things from the other side and this may not be a popular thing to talk about but here are my 2cents…

    I will never understand the fascination some people have with guns. I personally have never had an interest in them. Never have I gone hunting or felt the need to have a gun in my household for protection. My homes have always been secured with an alarm system because it seemed like the common sense thing to do but my front door was kicked in and my home was burglarized while my husband and I were at work many years ago. Although no one was harmed physically, I felt emotionally violated but it never once occurred to me to go out and acquire a firearm for protection. Instead, we bought a front door that could not be kicked in and did other things to secure our home. I say this to state that it’s a mindset of where you values exist that prompt you in your decision making. You see, because I was raised believing that guns hurt, harm and kill I have never felt the need to posses one. If I had been raised differently to hunt or to shoot targets as sport or to protect myself then I am sure that my opinion on guns would be very different. As I step back and reflect on that I try to find some measure of respect for that value. Trust me that sentence was very difficult for me to write. I’m trying to rise above this situation and see it from the gun enthusiasts perspective. I guess I have my pragmatic President to thank for that. 🙂

    I would say that probably most of us here think the whole notion of a gun enthusiast and guns for sport or protection is ludicrous but in order to change what happened on Friday from reoccurring many times over we are going to have to yield the floor to understanding that there are millions of gun owners who don’t see anything wrong with lawfully owning a gun.

    If we start the conversation with the attitude that these people are immoral and nuts for liking to own guns then we will probably get no where on gun control but if we use a measurable approach that allows these so-called “enthusiast” to have their sport or protection in a regulated way that gets the weapons of mass destruction and the ammo that goes along with them out of homes, off the Internet and off the streets then I think we will have a fighting chance to bring about change.

    For those of us that think that guns are vile period (as I do) I think that we are surely going to have to understand that we will never ban guns from our society. We will never understand what’s so “great” about shooting at things or the power one seems to think they have by possessing guns. The second amendment states that you have a right to bear arms. It doesn’t say anything about being able to freely purchase weapons of mass destruction to slaughter innocent babies. So if we handle this right, under the leadership of President Obama and some people in Congress that are ready to act, I believe we have a real chance at changing a society that was quite happy to “cling to their guns” but have now seen the carnage that these weapons can bestow on our communities and are in the mood to fix what is clearly broken.

    I stand ready to support PBO in this effort while forcing myself to keep my personal beliefs about guns in check. Unfortunately that’s a hard pill that most of us may have to be prepared to swallow in order to bring about this much needed reform. I don’t want this effort to turn into another “public option” or it’s a bust situation. Guns are considered a right in this country so they are probably here to stay but what guns and how we are allowed to use them can and must be regulated. Let’s not let those fallen angels lives to have been in vain. This is a soul searching moment for all of us. We must have permanent reform of our gun laws and we must have it now even if it means those of us that think guns are insane will have to live with the fact that there are many people in this country that will still live to shoot (sport and hunting) and shoot to live (protection). 😦

    • December 17, 2012 at 1:10 pm

      You’ve expressed very well how I feel, too, Donna. I did not grow up with guns in my family and I absolutely don’t understand how people can shoot animals for “sport.” I just can’t fathom it. Guns have an inherent violence that I cannot tolerate. But, like you, I try to respect those who decide to introduce guns into their lives and to their children’s lives. I also was burglarized once several years ago. All my beloved jewelry collected from places I’d traveled over the years was taken among other things but it never ever even entered my mind to buy a gun because I could not live with it. So thanks for adding your words to this dialogue because you are right about not turning this into a lot of demagoguery from both sides. We simply have to do something constructive.

    • December 17, 2012 at 3:27 pm

      Beautifully put, Donna. I was born and raised in Wisconsin and am back living there now in the northeast part of the state. It’s full of hunters up here – I was not raised with guns, hunting or shooting so I feel the same way you do about them. I never even allowed my boys to have guns as toys in the house (but that didn’t stop them from picking up branches in the yard and pretending they were guns, so I knew that it was something that was in our culture). I don’t understand the gun culture, but a lot of these folks are now my neighbors and they feel threatened by gun control. My goal is to have laws that limit access to guns, regulate and abolish the ownership of weapons of mass destruction by the general public. President Obama has now begun that dialogue, some members of Congress are planning on introducing gun control legislation and we now need to listen to the opposition as well. My hope and prayer is that those that oppose legislation currently will open their hearts and minds to this needed change. I am going to follow PBO’s lead on this – he is a master at planning and getting things done.

    • 192 prettyfoot58
      December 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm

      Guns are considered a right in this country so they are probably here to stay but what guns and how we are allowed to use them can and must be regulated….


    • 193 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 4:31 pm

      Well said, Donna! I’m of pretty much the same mind, although with a slightly different experience. My father has guns on his farm and in his home in Zimbabwe – on the farm because there are dangerous wild animals there and many miles from help from an intruder, and in his home because there are many violent home invasions. I don’t like guns at all, but I can see why he has them. I’ve never seen those guns in the many decades he’s had them.

      In his home in Canada, I don’t believe he owns a gun there, and I’ve never seen one. Why would he? He’s in a protected condominium, in a city of civilized people with police and legal recourse.

      I admit, for some unknown reason of fear, two weeks ago I considered buying a small firearm for myself – being a single female living in Los Angeles. I considered it for about 2 hours, and then realized that I’d never want to fire a weapon against another human being, and would probably end up having that gun used against me in a moment of crisis. I could not imagine having a gun in my home. I have to acknowledge that I might feel differently if I had small children – but I’d also be even more afraid of having a weapon like that in my home with them.

      I don’t understand people hunting defenseless animals for “sport” in the environment when they have lots of natural predators and their lives are already perilous. We have enough food to eat in stores. Granted, I also don’t like the idea of fishing for “sport” either… But, hunting with a gun just seems particularly cruel.

      I’m going to try and take your lead, and step back from my absolute position, and accept that there are others who don’t have the same restrictions. What is the boundary of their right for “enjoyment” versus my right for security and freedom of movement without harm? I already avoid malls over the weekends, out of fear. Why should I restrict my enjoyment while they get free reign? There’s got to be somewhere in the middle where we can all meet.

  52. December 17, 2012 at 1:08 pm

  53. December 17, 2012 at 1:11 pm

  54. December 17, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    bbl …

  55. December 17, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Sec. Clinton received the report on Benghazi today. She may still testify in Jan.

  56. 204 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Andrea Mitchell is in the process of blaming President Obama for every shooting death in the country, using Bloomberg quotes as proof. She first tried to blame Holder and the Dept. of Justice but then settled on “It’s all Obama’s fault.” (that no gun laws have been addressed)

    • 205 Vicki Green
      December 17, 2012 at 1:28 pm

      MSNBC is turning into all-Bloomberg all the time. WTH?

    • 206 Ladyhawke
      December 17, 2012 at 1:54 pm

      All Mrs. Greenspan is worrying about is getting “the get” (the interview that no one else can get) and being the FIRST to report some “SCOOP”. It really was nauseating to watch that segment. I usually have to put her on mute or just change the channel, but I just marveled at her delight in showing the clip of Mayor Bloomberg essentially blaming President Obama for many of the gun deaths since the Gabby Giffords shooting. It was infuriating. And always just making cursory mention of the fact that gun control legislation is the responsibility of congress and most of them are being held hostage by the NRA. And by the way, the congress is so dysfunctional that we can’t even get Speaker Boehner to bring up a vote on the jobs bill.

      Opensecrets clearly documents who is getting donations from the NRA. And we all know the NRA supported Mitt Romney and spent a fortune running negative ads against President Obama. And let’s not forget they have been trying their best to impeach Attorney General Eric Holder because he is doing his job of enforcing the laws in this country. Meanwhile, none of the pro gun rights senators had the courage to go on the Sunday Shows to plead their case. But the media and Mayor Bloomberg didn’t hesitate to blame this long standing culture of guns and violence on President Obama.

      • 207 theo67
        December 17, 2012 at 4:38 pm

        I watched some CNN last night, and Wolf Blitzer was delighting in saying that President Obama will finally do what Bloomberg’s been “telling” him to do regarding pushing for gun legislation. He was shut down by Anderson Cooper, who firmly told him that President Obama’s been saying this stuff since long before Bloomberg started talking about it.

        • 208 Cha
          December 17, 2012 at 7:22 pm

          Then why did Bloomberg endorse Scott Brown who got an “A” from NRA? Was it because Elizabeth is for Wall Street Regulations? Why the Hypocrisy, Bloomberg?

          • 209 theo67
            December 17, 2012 at 11:41 pm

            That Bloomberg love-fest by the media is driving me absolutely crazy. They’re conveniently ignoring his embrace of Scott Brown, who has blood on his hands, just like he ignored the fact that the economic downturn was caused by his Wall Street buddies. Bloomberg is scum, and the media is scum.

    • December 17, 2012 at 1:55 pm

      Jake Tapper is also quite the jerk as usual, expressing anger that POTUS has done “NOTHING” on this issue. UGH.

  57. 212 Bill
    December 17, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Joe Manchin told Mrs. Greenspan that Joe Lieberman is a “beautiful person”. He has a strange concept of beauty.

  58. 214 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    3 yr. old Ok. boy visiting a relative, finds loaded handgun in bedroom, shoots self in head, dies. The relative’s gun did not protect. It killed a family member, as is usually the case.


  59. December 17, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Well, this “one” made me furious (the fact that it is one of many evokes fury alone). Then, when I heard PBO’s statement on Friday, read the story of the principal and school therapist lunging at the shooter and getting killed, of the young teacher instructing her students to hide in cabinets leaving no room for herself and she was killed, then our President’s words at the vigil last night, I cried and cried and cried. And got furious again.

    So I spent several hours researching on Saturday and aside from the general feeling, reinforced this morning, that this “one” is different, spurring a quicker and more strident debate (as well as long overdue silence from the NRA), here’s what I’ve figured out…

    Our job as citizens and grassroots activists is to learn, acquire solid information — even through our tears — then connect the dots to action.
    1. INFORMATION and Talking points. Very cogent article:

    Also, you can immediately tell what side people are on, it’s either the pro guns side, or the banning/regulation/pro mental health support/community awareness side. To the pro gun people, ask them to recite the first words of the 2nd Amendment, which are, “a well REGULATED MILITIA”. It’s important to note that at the time of the writing of the 2nd amendment the guns available were unpredictable muskets, took a full sixty seconds to load, and were more likely to kill the shooter than the intended “target”, as opposed to the multiple body count killing machines available to unstable people today. Even though we don’t love the Ed Schulz show, a caller just said something to the effect: “How did the words ‘a well regulated militia’ come to mean ‘an unregulated populace’?”

    Also, right now I’m researching exactly what is entailed once you do have an assault weapon registered to you. Do you get yearly checks to see whether the gun is secure and who has access to it, for instance? Did you know that Colorado prohibits gun registration? See here: http://www.thenation.com/blog/168986/colorado-shooter-likely-got-guns-ease
    And here: http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/StatePatrol-Main/CBON/1251594549010
    In other words, there is no database that (let’s say) only law enforcement has access to that tells you who owns assault rifles?

    And another great article from WAPO about the assault weapons ban: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-banning-assault-weapons-in-one-post/
    …citing where the last ban was riddled with loopholes, and therefore, any new ban has to be more effective.

    Watch this clip. Not only does Piers Morgan, in my opinion, end up saying what so many of us are thinking, there are a few nuggets of indisputable fact that is helpful in argument on this issue. For instance, he quotes 300,000,000 guns in America (I’ll not likely forget that one, although the WAPO article mentions the figure at 200,000,000). There are 35 gun deaths in Great Britain every year. Great Britain is slightly smaller than the state of Colorado, so that might translate to perhaps 1,750 deaths? (I know, sickening that I’m even thinking in these terms…). But we have 12,000 people die every year. Translation: banning guns, more regulation, turning in guns (like they did in Ireland) equals fewer gun deaths. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfuJnUJa5JA&feature=player_embedded

    2 ACTION.
    SIGN any and all petitions to ban assault weapons, or to reinstate the assault weapons ban that was lifted during Bush’s term.
    Here’s just one, or you can create one of your own via change.org:

    COMMENT: writing letters to the Editor. But also, writing comments on Facebook pages, in the comments field on YouTube clips as well as newspaper sites. Based on the success of the election, for weeks before November 6, I kept noticing the articulate, intelligent argument from so many ordinary people in the comments fields of various sources. Sure, the idiotic comments were annoying, racist and shocking, but they were far fewer in number. I wondered how that was going to translate to the election results. And working in publishing, I know that media forms get “jealous” of each other. Print is jealous of TV. TV is jealous of the internet, etc. So they won’t report fairly where success is due. Finally, Rolling Stone came out with that great article about the power of social media influencing the election. I think it will continue to work on this issue and others.

    PRESSURE ON ELECTED OFFICIALS: Check opensecrets.org to identify which elected officials are accepting money from the NRA (Boehner is one, for example). Here in Colorado that is Mike Coffman and Tipton. But, for instance, is Cory Gardner, our 4th CD representative, taking a stance on the Newtown tragedy? Nope. Probably because of the rousing endorsement during the election of Gardner by Gun Owners of America: http://www.goapvf.org/endorsements/cory-gardner But here is where the “rubber meets the road” for their actions. This should breed a onslaught of questions that start with, “Given the recent tragedies, how can you, in good conscience accept money from the NRA?”

    I believe that President Obama’s heartfelt statement yesterday and at the the vigil last night, was a clarion call to citizens. To not only support him in efforts to finally do something, but to create such a firestorm of the right kind — public outrage — to stop the murder by assault weapons, once and for all.

    • 216 HZ
      December 17, 2012 at 1:56 pm

      I need prayer. These clowns with Jay Carney are being complete asses with Jay. Jake and others are just shameful today. This is awful. Jay is so patience and so professional. Keep Jay in your thoughts as well.

      Excuse me, these are jackasses. Yes, I said it. These are ugly, lazy people with pens, blackberrys, iphones and pencils and paper. No use of brains power. This is a disgrace that Jay has to listen to this crap daily.HZ

      • 217 symmetry11
        December 17, 2012 at 2:19 pm

        I am with you on this one HZ. They have made me really angry today, especially Tapper. God bless Jay Carney. He has more patience than I would ever have.

      • 218 amk for obama
        December 17, 2012 at 2:31 pm

        These idjits are on permanent poutrage, HZ. They realize no one gives a s…t about what they have to say and that there is an active citizen journalism that is driving the narratives now-a-days. They have seen all their shilling for mittbot failed spectacularly last month and hence act like peeved morons.

        • 219 FiredUpInCA
          December 17, 2012 at 3:05 pm

          These embeded a-holes said nothing when Bush did not renew the ban on assault weapons. They were too fearful to critique him about guns, Iraq or the economy he tanked.

          Once again, the President I chose, has all the wrath visited on him for policies put in place by his predecessors.

          After 4 years of this, I am quite sick of it but on another level I almost understand it.

          Because the President is exceptional and the likes of him will not grace the White House for a very long time–if ever–more demands are made of him to do as much as he can for the brief time that we have him.

          It is not fair but it is the burden and privilege of being an exceptional leader.

          When the Jackals harangue him for not fixing in 4 years what decades of President have not been able to, they are basically telling us they don’t expect anybody else on the horizon to come close to achieving as much this President has.

          • 220 susanne
            December 17, 2012 at 3:35 pm

            i think you really nailed it, firedup. the excessive demands placed on pbo are due to his exceptional abilities and qualities. there is definitely a sense that if he can’t get this done, it will never happen. so the feeling of desperation fuels the outcry when he is not able to wave a magic wand. the level of resistance he encounters comes from the same source: belief that he is an awesome warrior for good.

            i see him making the hard choices about where to place his energies, when everything that faces him is top priority, essential, necessary. we talk about choosing our battles, in the context of domestic squabbles, but he really does have to decide if today he can get the fiscal cliff done, and also handle the war in afghanistan, and also greet foreign dignitaries, and also and also and also… oh, yeah, solve the problem of gun violence in american, which has only been around for a few hundred years.

            i’m like the rest, though. i think he can do it. but not alone–everybody has to work with him. it’s his leadership that is powerful. no magic wand.

  60. December 17, 2012 at 1:53 pm

  61. 222 sjterrid
    December 17, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Chips, congratulations on reaching 16 million hits.

    • 223 HZ
      December 17, 2012 at 2:15 pm

      Great news. Thanks so much for all that you do, Chips.((((((((((( We Love You)))))))))))))))HZ

      Please help us contact and show our support behind Sen. Feinstein of CA., on a bill that she plans to bring up when the new Senate comes into session next year.

      San Diego
      619- 231-9712

      Fax: 559-485-9689

      San Francisco
      415 393-0707

      Los Angeles
      Fax: 310-914-7318


      Thank you so much

  62. 224 Rain
    December 17, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Hello friends, Happy Monday. I’m late getting on today because I have a pile of custom art to get done before the holidays but I had to stop by while I nibble on lunch. I stayed awake most of the night thinking about all of this, there is so much that needs to be done but I am overwhelmed with the feeling that this is a major turning point in American history, that ultimately will leave us better off. I hope and pray that is the case. I am off to contact my reps by email, and Twitter. Have a blessed afternoon everyone! (((Hugs)))

  63. 225 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 2:24 pm

  64. 239 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 2:25 pm

  65. 241 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Good. Kick them where it hurts most.

  66. 242 amk for obama
    December 17, 2012 at 2:27 pm

  67. 243 Bill
    December 17, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    A person in the office of Senator Kay Hagen (D-NC) who is up for re-election in 2014 told me she is in favor of a ban on assault weapons. The MSM continues to report being from a swing state she may have a problem supporting gun control. A little leg work by the MSM is in order.

    • 244 majiir
      December 17, 2012 at 6:15 pm

      She won’t have a problem getting re-elected if the MSM informs the American people why the ban on assault weapons is necessary. A major reason why so many Americans are misinformed on a wide range of topics is because the talking heads invite liars onto their networks and give them carte blanc to lie, without challenging them. As a few brave journalists have pointed out since the election, the MSM has largely failed the American people because it has treated the republicans in a way that makes millions of Americans think that the things they say are true and make sense, when they aren’t/haven’t.

  68. 246 susanne
    December 17, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    good hawaii morning chips and tods

    the responses to the sandy hook tragedy have settled down into a few themes: guns; mental health; video games/movies/’culture of violence’. there’s an increasing tendency to pit these against the others, and say, no, it’s not guns, it’s video games; or no, it’s not violent movies, it’s our sick mental health system. etc.

    i’d like to see the president’s ‘all of the above’ strategy, which he applies to our energy program, applied here too.

    yes, it’s guns, and we need to make substantive changes in the easy access to weapons. yes, it’s our mental health system, and we need to fund, train, and monitor programs for troubled youth. and yes, it is also the violent games, films, and images that our children are steeped in, which we must change.

    all of it. it’s all of it.

    and nothing will be done if we allow the discussion to be about ‘which is to blame’. that dangerous path has kept us mired in inaction for a long time. now we must address all of the above, all at once, now.

    the beauty of this is, it gives everybody something to do. if you’re not convinced the problem is access to guns, and you think it’s a mental health system issue that is killing our children, then by all means work and fight for improvements to our mental health system. if you think video games are just a fun pastime, and the real issue is access to assault rifles, then by all means, work hard to ban access to those weapons.

    but do not stand in the way of others, who see this from a different perspective. if there were a perfect, simple answer, this horrible issue would have been solved before. none of us can be certain we’re the ones who know the answer. so work on what you think is the right approach, and let others work on theirs. with all of us address the job we see in front of us, we’ll get this done.

    if we stay with an either/or approach, we’ll just keep on arguing and going nowhere.

    • 247 jackiegrumbacher
      December 17, 2012 at 3:16 pm

      Suzanne, that’s why I so appreciated the fact that the president included a broad range of interests that he would being to bear to fight gun terror. He saw all these interests working together and because he “sees” it that way, that’s the way it will happen.

  69. 248 squarepeg
    December 17, 2012 at 2:52 pm

  70. 249 Ladyhawke
    December 17, 2012 at 3:02 pm


    The Tide is Turning : Senator With A Rating From NRA Calls for Rational Gun Control

    By Jason Easley


    Warner said, “I believe every American has Second Amendment rights, the ability to hunt is part of our culture. I’ve had a NRA (National Rifle Association) rating of an “A” but, you know, enough is enough. I think most of us, realize that there are ways to get to rational gun control. There are ways to grapple with the obvious challenges of mental illness.”

    The conventional Beltway wisdom since the Newtown shooting has been that any new gun control law would be difficult to pass because of the NRA’s influence over members on both sides of the aisle, but Mark Warner’s support for gun control is the biggest sign yet that NRA is not nearly as influential as it has been made out to be.

    If more Democrats follow Warner’s lead, the Republican Party will be forced into another uncomfortable defense of one of their special interests against the wishes of a majority of Americans. A new ABC News/ Washington Post poll found that 54% of Americans now support stricter gun control laws. Fifty two percent favor banning semi-automatic handguns, and 59% favor banning high capacity magazine clips.



    • 250 No Child Left Behind
      December 17, 2012 at 3:24 pm

      The other “A” rated Democrat, Sen. Joe Mancin, did a 180 also. Although I still have a hard time forgetting and forgiving his ad during the 2010 elections that shows him with an AK-47 shooting at “Obamacare”. Then, he wanted to put a lot of distance between him and PBO in order to win. He won and I tried to forgive him for that. But this morning, he is a new convert. And I doubt of new converts.

    • 252 theo67
      December 17, 2012 at 5:05 pm

      The ability to continue breathing is part of our culture, too. How about they start advocating for that?

  71. 253 Pamela
    December 17, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Oh! whoa! When did we cross the 16,000,000 hits marker, and how did I miss it? Whoa! {{{{{{Chipsticks}}}}}}

  72. 255 susanne
    December 17, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    also happening: the budget talks. this article from paul krugman puts it all together so well. do not miss!

    ‘ What the Dr. Evil types think, and want you to think, is that the big current deficit is a sign that our fiscal position is completely unsustainable. Sometimes they argue that it means that a debt crisis is just around the corner, although they’ve been predicting that for years and it keeps not happening. (U.S. borrowing costs are near historic lows.) But more often they use the deficit to argue that we can’t afford to maintain programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. So it’s important to understand that this is completely wrong. ‘


  73. December 17, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    I see no reason why Jay Carney should have to tolerate one.more.minute of
    verbal abuse from the White House Press Corps. Why does he?
    this is a serious question. Does Jay Carney have to put up with the
    White House press Corps?? If so, who says so? It’s an abusive situation
    and should stop. Like today, it should stop.

    • 257 No Child Left Behind
      December 17, 2012 at 3:35 pm

      I have always referred to the Press Corps and its briefing as the Day Care Center at the WH. The so called journalists behave like toddlers.

    • 258 Chi
      December 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm

      I completely agree with you Sara…

      There’s no reason he should put up with this…

  74. 259 No Child Left Behind
    December 17, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Good Afternoon.

    Sorry if this was posted above. But it is good to know what and who Tim Scott of NC is.

    “Scott is an unmarried, 47-year-old anti-union, anti-choice, anti-gay Tea Party conservative. Ironically, his appointment makes South Carolina the only state in the union with two unmarried senators. Lindsey Graham is the other.”


    Why are these God-fearing, lovin Christians unmarried???

    • 260 susanne
      December 17, 2012 at 3:37 pm

      what woman would have them?

    • 262 JER
      December 17, 2012 at 3:54 pm

      They are gay?

      • 263 daisydem
        December 17, 2012 at 4:12 pm

        Probably … not that there is anything wrong with that!

      • 264 susanne
        December 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm

        oh, well– i guess my ‘what women would have them’ doesn’t apply. okay. so, what man would have them? are they in a civil union? a same-sex marriage sanctified by their personal vows and public pronouncement? does anybody at all want to live with them, and share their lives? that’s what i thought.

      • 265 nathkatun7
        December 17, 2012 at 7:03 pm

        JER, they are they must be self-hating gays.

    • 266 daisydem
      December 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm

      You mean SC? And the answer to your last question is … hmmm … well … he and Graham protest too much, me thinks?

    • 267 dotster3
      December 17, 2012 at 5:27 pm

      If the pattern holds, if you’re an anti-gay Republican, you’re gay. Lots of anti-gay gays in the Republican Party.

    • 268 majiir
      December 17, 2012 at 6:24 pm

      Just because Haley appointed him to DeMented’s seat doesn’t really mean sh*t to me. Tim Scott is a disgrace to everything the founders wanted America to represent. He’ll probably get an inflated sense of himself with the upgrade from rep to Senator, and from the fact that he’s the only black in the Senate. I hope he doesn’t think that this upgrade makes him anything like PBO, who ran for, and won, his Senate seat. Tim Scott is irrefutable evidence that just because a politician is black doesn’t mean that other blacks will rally around him/her. Although I don’t live in SC, if I did, I’d never vote for TS, not in a million years. My race doesn’t shape for whom I’ll vote, but my values do, and TS and I have nothing in common. I hate everything he stands for. The Rwers here in GA have invited Herman Cain to move here and run for the Senate in 2014. If they think we’re going to vote en masse for Cain because he’s black and we’re black, they’d better think again.

  75. December 17, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Let’s apply pressure to WalMart, too:

  76. December 17, 2012 at 4:02 pm

  77. 274 yardarm756
    December 17, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    For those poor babies and grieving parents

  78. December 17, 2012 at 4:37 pm


    Never thought I’d be posting this ….

    I think our President is getting through to many and fortunately those folk have the strength of character to change.

    • 278 susanne
      December 17, 2012 at 4:44 pm

      you named it bob: strength of character. that’s the opposite of cowardice, and we’ll indeed be watching as each public figure declares which they are.

    • 279 99ts
      December 17, 2012 at 5:14 pm

      I listened to Morning Joe – to me he didn’t sound very sincere – but perhaps I have heard him too often – seemed like he was trying to compete with the President for making a speech to be remembered. He had Joe Machin on and they both raved about how it wasn’t the fault of the NRA and the latter group should be in the discussions and when Joe started his monologue to himself I turned it off.

      When media get up and say it is time to repeal the 2nd amendment (as prohibition was repealed) then I will believe they are serious. When they stop attacking the President and say “it can be done” and “it will be done” instead of the opposite – then they are serious.

      My heart is still weeping for the children and their families – it will be a Christmas of mourning – to be remembered every year. The anti gun amendment needs to be there before next Christmas so their lives can start to recover.

      • December 17, 2012 at 5:19 pm

        I have only listened to him on perhaps 2 or 3 other occasions so I have no way to judge, 99. He repudiated his own decades long ideology and that seemed significant.

        As to the change we must make happen, couldn’t agree with you more.

        Yes We Can

        • 281 99ts
          December 17, 2012 at 5:45 pm

          I support every tweet you make Bob – and agree with your sentiment on supporting those who change – but I just thought he was making “the speech” so he would get the media – that he has obviously got. Thus said – any port in a storm – if it persuades just one congress person – worth it.

        • 283 dotster3
          December 17, 2012 at 6:07 pm

          I say we get behind anyone who speaks out on this matter even if we have had serious grievances with them in the past—–like Morning Joe and Piers Morgan etc. We need a snowball effect and need to support those who are speaking out now on this issue.

      • 284 majiir
        December 17, 2012 at 6:08 pm

        When PBO invited Wayne LaPierre to the WH last year to discuss gun control, LaPierre, as expected, disrespected the president and said that there was no need to discuss gun control with someone who wanted to take Americans’ guns away from them. It was an opportunity for honest discourse, but LaPierre showed that he wasn’t interested in discussing anything having to do with reducing the number of deaths by guns in the U.S. Sadly, the way LaPierre reacted to the president’s invitation is the way that many high profile republicans react, and what disturbs me are those Americans who keep claiming that PBO is unwilling to speak with anyone who opposes his policies. This is NOT true. Oftentimes, after the president’s opponents refuse to meet with him, they create a negative conspiracy theory about why they refused his offer and make it seem as if he’s the devil incarnate, when he’s nothing of the sort.

  79. 285 Bill R.
    December 17, 2012 at 4:54 pm

  80. 287 susanne
    December 17, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    we were all hoping the president and first family would be arriving in hawaii today for their annual vacation with friends and family in the president’s home state. hard to imagine he’ll be able to get away with the budget mess plus the urgent gun control issue on his plate. last year, he wasn’t able to arrive until dec 23rd, but flotus and the girls came sooner.

    • 288 anniebella
      December 17, 2012 at 5:42 pm

      So do anyone know the vacation plans for POTUS and his family? POTUS need a vacation, he is only human, he has to take care of his self. Since so much is happening, I thought they might decide to cancel the trip to Hawaii.

  81. 289 xtine
    December 17, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    [Madiba Update]:

    Government officials said the 94-year-old Mandela underwent a successful surgery for gallstones on Saturday. Officials say Mandela has been hospitalized since Dec. 8 for tests and later medical treatment for a recurrent lung infection.


  82. 290 squarepeg
    December 17, 2012 at 5:41 pm

  83. 294 Bill R.
    December 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm

  84. 301 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    “We can’t go back to school. Our teacher’s dead.” School neighbor finds 6 little kids sitting at the end of his driveway Fri. a.m. These are the 6 kids who escaped from Ms. Soto’s class, reportedly running past the shooter. The other 7 kids in the class were found safe later by law enforcement still waiting in a dark closet, “7 sets of eyes staring back at me”, the 1st responder said when he opened the closet door. Anyhoo, this kindly neighbor took these 6 escapees in, gave them stuffed animals to hold, and juice, and contacted their relieved and grateful parents.


  85. 304 Bill
    December 17, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Tweety has a gun nut, Larry Pratt, saying we should have guns to use against the government if necessary.

  86. 309 Alycee (@jazziz2)
    December 17, 2012 at 5:54 pm

  87. 311 dotster3
    December 17, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    Mayor Rahm calls for an assault weapons ban, says it is time for a “vote of conscience” in Congress.


  88. December 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    • 314 donna dem 4 obama
      December 17, 2012 at 6:34 pm

      He lived to see his native son of Hawaii be elected twice to the highest office in the land. RIP Senator Inouye.

  89. December 17, 2012 at 6:09 pm

  90. December 17, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Sen. Patrick Leahy will now be longest serving Dem Senator and will take the Senate Pro Tempore position.

  91. December 17, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    Somebody get the hook and end this mess:

  92. 320 susanne
    December 17, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    r.i.p senator inouye
    me ke aloha pumehana

    The story of Dan Inouye is the story of modern Hawaii. During his eight decades of public service, Dan Inouye helped build and shape Hawaii.

    Senator Inouye began his career in public service at the age of 17 when he enlisted in the U.S. Army shortly after Imperial Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. He served with ‘E’ company of the 442 Regimental Combat Team, a group consisting entirely of Americans of Japanese ancestry. Senator Inouye lost his arm charging a series of machine gun nests on a hill in San Terenzo, Italy on April 21, 1945. His actions during that battle earned him the Medal of Honor.
    After receiving his law degree, Dan Inouye, returned to Hawaii and worked as a Deputy Prosecuting Attorney for the City and County of Honolulu. He recognized the social and racial inequities of post-war Hawaii, and in 1954 was part of a Democratic revolution that took control of the Territorial Legislature.

    Following statehood in 1959, Dan Inouye was privileged to serve as Hawaii’s first Congressman. He ran for the Senate in 1962 where he served for nearly nine consecutive terms.

    Dan Inouye spent his career building an enduring federal presence in Hawaii to ensure that the state would receive its fair share of federal resources. He worked to expand the military’s presence on all major islands, stabilizing Pearl Harbor, building up the Pacific Missile Range and constructing a headquarters for the United States Pacific Command.
    Dan Inouye was always among the first to speak out against injustice whether interned Japanese Americans, Filipino World War II veterans, Native Americans and Native Hawaiians.

    A prominent player on the national stage, Senator Inouye served as Chairman of the Senate Committee on Appropriations, the Senate Commerce Committee and was the first Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

    After developing a reputation as a bipartisan workhorse, who always would put country above party, he was asked by the Senate leadership to chair the special committee investigating the Iran Contra Affair. This was after a successful tenure as a member of the Watergate Committee.

    When asked in recent days how he wanted to be remembered, Dan said, very simply, “I represented the people of Hawaii and this nation honestly and to the best of my ability. I think I did OK.”

    His last words were, “Aloha.”


    • December 17, 2012 at 6:31 pm

      May you Rest in Peace Senator Inouye. A huge loss to the Democratic Party!

    • 322 mtmarilyn
      December 17, 2012 at 7:04 pm

      RIP Sen Inouye. I am 66 and I remember when Hawaii became a state. It was really a big deal. I remember seeing him many times on TV.
      He will be greatly missed. My condolences to the people of Hawaii.

    • December 17, 2012 at 7:05 pm

      Condolences to all Hawaiians and to the US Senate.

      “Tomorrow will be the first day the state of Hawaii has not been represented by Daniel Inouye.”

      “If you put the story behind Daniel Inouye’s Medal of Honor in a movie, it would be dismissed as not believable.”

      Buzzfeed also has a story up about how Sen. Inouye was a big supporter of his punk-rock musician son.

  93. 324 99ts
    December 17, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Gunmaker stocks – falling prices – hope they keep going down

    “The top worry investors have is that new rules could control sales of assault rifles, which have been a big area of growth for the gunmakers, Dionisio says.”

    “Both Smith & Wesson and Sturm Ruger are mostly owned by mutual funds” – another way to “get the guns” if you invest make sure you do not invest in these companies or funds that invest in these companies.

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