university of miami (updated)





The University of Miami, February 23


Touring the Industrial Assessment Center at the University of Miami

148 Responses to “university of miami (updated)”

  1. 19 tally
    February 23, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Those faces are the best!!!

  2. February 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    from my twitter timeline:

    RT @ppppolls: Obama has abt 230 electoral votes he cn B pretty confident abt. It was more lk 170 4 Kerry/Gore: http://t.co/nl4RoE4H #p2

  3. 22 PoliticalJunkessa
    February 23, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Beauuuuuutiful! He’s obviously lost the youth! (/snark)

  4. 24 edp4bho
    February 23, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    From last thread:

    Hello TOD, smart people. Could one of you smart people, and I mean this truly, answer the net-wide question of why tax refunds are lower this year, than last. I was perusing, trying for a reasonable explanation and came across, of all things, the free republic, as they seemed to want to explain it. Of course, we’ve been scammed by PBO and the Democrats, according to them. Actually, I would like an intelligent breakdown, otherwise I will have to expend time this evening examining this, and I have so many other financials to tend to. Would appreciate a response. I would suppose the answer is simple, but maybe someone can volunteer his/her expertise. Thank you, anyone.


    • 25 tally
      February 23, 2012 at 5:09 pm

      Where does it say they’re lower?

      • February 23, 2012 at 5:14 pm

        My tax refund was bigger this year, between the Feds and CA.

        • 27 edp4bho
          February 23, 2012 at 5:20 pm

          Tally and LL, I found mine and my son’s to be lower. I don’t expect anything nefarioius by the IRS, and certainly not by PBO, but my concern is basically to squash any talk I may hear from others (especially some of these R’s at work). I like to have a definitive response to any negatives brought up about our President, and want to always defend him honestly and with strong facts. As of the tax refund, I don’t have an answer because I have yet to research. I had hoped to get a quickie lesson from one of anyone here.

          • 28 edp4bho
            February 23, 2012 at 5:21 pm

            By the way, I just happened to Google the question and it came up.

          • 29 hopefruit2
            February 23, 2012 at 5:24 pm

            Were your AGI and # exemptions and witholding the same as last year? And do you have any reliably sourced data like that shows that people’s refunds are lower this year than last year – all other things being equal?

            • 31 EDP4BHO
              February 23, 2012 at 7:06 pm

              I didn’t change any WH but I asked my son had he done so, he said no. No reliable source, just asking. And to that, I think imma go back and re-do mine…LOL. No itemization to do this year. Oh well, better luck next time, I guess. This reminds me of the first tax cut we received under PBO, and a few people questioned it at work last year. I don’t think our HR person was able to explain it properly, and I felt those asking were doubtful, so I let them figure it out on their own. I do get sensitive when people question PBO’s motives and his administration, so I tend to get spiteful in return. Gotta do better. Thanks all, anyway, I’ll try to find out what happened.

          • 32 nathkatun7
            February 24, 2012 at 2:49 am

            Edp4bho, The question is: How much was your take home after taxes throughout 2011 compared to your take home pay after taxes in 2010? Do you own a home? If so did your mortgage interest decline throughout 2001 because of low interest rates? Because if that happened it would mean that your mortgage interest deduction for 2011 would be lower than your mortgage interest deduction in 2010.

            If you kept most of your money after tax deductions in 2011 than in 2010, and if you paid less mortgage interest in 2011 than in 2010, then, naturally, your tax refund is going to be lower than the 2010 tax refund. But that does not mean that you paid more taxes in 2011 than in 2010. There is absolutely nothing “nefarious” about that. As I said on earlier thread, I am also getting less tax refund this year. But that is because I paid less payroll taxes, as well as less mortgage interest, in 2011 than I did in 2010. I actually took the trouble to compare the overall taxes I paid in 2010 with what I paid in 2011. Although I am getting less tax refund this year for 2011, I paid more taxes, with a higher refund, in 2010. I am sure I am not the only one.

            Again the size of the refund has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of taxes you paid! If you seriously want to find out how much taxes you paid, assemble all your pay-stubs from 2010 and compare them to 2011 pay-stubs to find out your after taxes take home pay. After you’ve done that, compare the taxes you paid for 2010 and 2011 minus the respective refunds. You just can’t simply compare the amount of tax refunds without taking into account the amount tax deductions, before your take home pay, that you enjoyed throughout the year. Here is what happened to me: In 2011 I took home $1200.00 more than I did in 2010 because of payroll tax cuts. I also paid $5000.00 less in mortgage interest. Naturally, my tax refund this year (for the 2011 income) is lower than my tax refund last year (for 2010). But, in terms of what I actually paid in total taxes, I paid $1200.00 less in 2011 than I paid in 2010.

            I hope this helps explain why you may be getting a smaller tax refund. Basically, if you get to keep most of your money, after payroll tax deductions, throughout the tax year, then there is no need to claim a higher tax refund. You just can’t have it both ways: You can’t have more take home pay after taxes throughout the year, and more refund after you file your taxes. The size of your tax refund is not the same as the amount of taxes you paid in 2011 compared to, lets say, the taxes you paid in 2010, or for that matter, 2001!

            • 33 nathkatun7
              February 24, 2012 at 3:22 am

              By the way, here are some things that might be helpful to you and your son:

              1. Compare your adjustable income for 2010 and 2011. If it went up you possibly have to pay a little more taxes, hence less refund.
              2. Compare your exemptions. If you had fewer exemptions this year than last year your tax liability increases.
              3. If you do not use standard deductions then compare your Schedule A deductions for 2010 and 2011. Pay close attention to mortgage interest deductions because of the very low mortgage interest last year. This affects people who have fixed mortgage interests. I know my mortgage interest went way down. This meant this year my mortgage interest deduction was less than 1/3 of what I deducted last year. But then again I should have no problem and shouldn’t complain about less refund because I did not pay that interest. Truthfully, I did much better than the refund would have given me.
              4. If you receive pay checks, like most of us do, compare how much taxes were deducted in 2010 and 2011. If you took more money home in 2011 than in 2010 then you should not expect a higher refund. You’ve already, so to speak, gotten a tax refund.

              These comparison should enable you to find out if you paid more taxes in 2011 than you paid in 2010. Again, as I said earlier, the size of your tax refund has absolutely nothing to do with whether you paid more taxes this year than last year. Please don’t buy into politically motivated assertions that are not based in reality.

              • 34 nathkatun7
                February 24, 2012 at 3:36 am

                Correction: I meant to say that last year’s low mortgage interest “did not” affect people with fixed mortgage interest. Rather it affected people with adjustable mortgage interest.

        • 36 Lorraine
          February 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm

          Mine, too. More than I’ve ever received back in my life.

          • February 23, 2012 at 5:44 pm

            I think it really depends on what deductions you can claim. The Making Work Pay credit went away, but I have student loan interest I can deduct, so that helped both for the IRS and CA.

            Tax policy is way above my pay grade. I’m just glad that wifey and I were able to do away with quite a few bills.

    • 38 donna dem 4 obama
      February 23, 2012 at 5:23 pm

      EDP4PBO I left you a response on the previous thread.

    • 40 clgldg53
      February 23, 2012 at 5:46 pm

      Hey edp4pho I just lurk but wanted to chime in to tell you if your refund is lower it is probably because the Presidents making work pay credit ended last year. If your were married you got a $800 dollar credit and if you were single you got a $400 dollar credit. This credit is not on this years return. Hope that helped. I’d do a smiley face but still haven’t figured that out.

      • 41 EDP4BHO
        February 23, 2012 at 7:22 pm

        Thanks clgldg53. I’m cool now after all the discussion. As for the smiley face, colon, hyphen, capital d 😀

    • 42 Cman
      February 23, 2012 at 6:38 pm

      The making work pay tax credit from the stimulus expired and now only the payroll tax credit is in place. So your weekly paycheck should see some increase but the return in taxes would be lower. Or at least that’s how I understand it.

      • 43 EDP4BHO
        February 23, 2012 at 7:26 pm

        Yes, thanks Cman. I guess I never appreciated the increase because my company gave us such a pitiful raise in 2010, and none at all last year. Yes, every little bit counts, and I am a bit concerned financially as my son, with whom I purchased my/our house, will lose his job come April. So any decrease in funds is very much magnified. Again, thanks to all my TOD for being on this. What would I do without you? Maybe get more sleep….. 😀 I spend most of my evenings here, till bedtime. I’ve gotta do better 😀 Now, to go and ogle my President Gorgeous.

  5. 44 Beauzeaux
    February 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    The kids’ faces while they’re listening. So intent. So interested. And all beautiful.

  6. 45 GGail
    February 23, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Look at all of those people of our future

    February 23, 2012 at 5:15 pm


  8. February 23, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    On energy, there is one almost unknown option that looks very powerful and cheap. Algae, given the right conditions, can grow exponentially without requiring complex nutrients, which is why so many people want a practical method to turn it into, say, bio-diesel.

    Put algae in a biogas digester, and let it rot down into methane, CO2 and a decayed semi-solid remnant. (No exotic technologies required, a biogas digester is basically a lined and covered trench.) Recycle the “waste products” back into your system, including the exhaust of any methane burned or passed through fuel cells on site (creating more CO2 and water vapor).

    To speed the decay of cellulose in your system, either use microbes from the stomachs of ruminants (found in their stomachs, and possibly in their cuds) or simply resign yourself to having algae decaying a lot longer in your biogas digester, and getting a much larger solid leftover.

    Your excess solid remnant can then be dried out and rendered into charcoal with a low-oxygen burn — and that charcoal can be activated by a high-temperature mix of CO2 and steam (one slightly less hot than the CO2/water vapor exhaust of, say, burning methane).

    Gasoline powered cars can run on compressed natural gas with only sleight modifications — the gas cylinders in your trunk or truck bed, some hoses, and a switch on your dashboard to switch from gas to natural gas. Compressed natural gas requires very high pressures… but much lower pressures if allowed to adsorb into, say, activated charcoal.

    There’s a ton of other, related industrial and agricultural applications, almost all of which could be managed by most remote, pre-industrial villages using little more than scrap.


    Alternatively, you can just ignore the article and enjoy your high gas prices. That works too. =)

    • 49 Bobfr (aka Our4thEstate)
      February 23, 2012 at 5:29 pm

      Hi Ralph,

      Yes. Excellent summary. And, considerable research has been underway for several years, particularly in Australia, with modified forms of algae to produce what is likely the ultimate clean fuel – hydrogen.



      • February 23, 2012 at 5:51 pm

        Thanks, Bobfr. The above method is completely open source, aka free to all. (I should know, I put it there.) And there’s an advantage to just being able to use abundant natural algae to seed your tanks — you aren’t paying anyone for a complex technology or patented bio-engineered organism to make it all possible.

        Also, because there’s almost nothing to making and harvesting the natural gas (basically, you let things rot down in the trench, and take up the resultant gas through a hose) the labor and technology required are dramatically reduced compared to just about anything else.

        Hydrogen as a fuel has some advantages, such as burning away into pure water vapor, but it’s extremely difficult to store. If that biohydrogen reactor were to become particularly viable, I suspect they would burn most of it on site, and stockpile energy primarily as electricity. Which is one use for the algae/biodigesters mentioned above, though compressed natural gas would be another common form of stored power.

        • 51 Bobfr (aka Our4thEstate)
          February 23, 2012 at 6:37 pm

          Correct, Ralph. And, very cool of you!!!

          Our primary interests in hydrogen, beyond it’s being exceptionally safe ecologically, is in it’s ability to be ‘stored’ as an integral part of a ‘smart grid’ and because some very clever folk are thinking through the ‘miniaturizing’ of a reactor, storage system at ‘filling stations’ for hydrogen powered vehicles.

          With the type of leadership President Obama will be able to expand considerably in his 2nd term, hydrogen is likely to have a big future in America and globally if inventive folk are enabled to move aggressively on the promise of algae (and other organisms).


  9. 52 vitaminlover
    February 23, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    You know, I was thinking, I hope I don’t look like that young lady in the 18th picture with her eyes bulging with excitement, when I finally get to meet my President and his family…I had better start working on maintaining a pleasant facial expression no matter how excited I know that I will be. She was just overjoyed wasn’t she?

  10. 55 collegekay
    February 23, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    ooo My president gotta phatty (4th pic) lol :p

    • 56 EDP4BHO
      February 23, 2012 at 8:02 pm

      LOL…..I thought that on pic #5. Just right for goosin’ ? Let me stop. He’s the President of the United States, for God’s sake 😀

  11. 57 PhillyinJA
    February 23, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Saying hello to all of you from the sunny Island of Jamaica. I had a meeting all day so I couldn’t listen to our Fabulous in Cheif today. 😦 sigh. Anyways I’m off to class and I will check in if I can later.

  12. 59 Bobfr (aka Our4thEstate)
    February 23, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Please forgive the repeat of this tweet but we are witnessing a strategy that is actually esthetically one of the most appealing political and policy matrices of all time.

    In a matter of a few weeks the President has the GOP painting itself into a picture that is so simple and obvious every American sees it and more Americans are not liking it.

    The GOP are pro-rich, pro-BigOil, pro-war, anti-contraception. That is about as ugly a picture as any politician would ever want to be portrayed. The ultimate beauty is that President Obama stood back and let the GOP paint themselves into the picture – in brilliant colors and eagerly.

    If nothing else, today’s GOP is, beyond reckless, just to STOOOOOOPID to be allowed the ‘keys to the car.’


    • February 23, 2012 at 5:39 pm

      Bob, thank you for expressing this so well. The GOP has been backed into appalling economic positions and repellent social ones. A social conservative looks at the economic positions and feels disgust and a fiscal conservative hears the socially extremist views, particularly aimed at women, and gets nauseated. I talked to a social conservative today who actually said he would be fine with the Republican’s social issue agenda, but was completely turned off by their allegiance to the rich. Retweeted you today.

    • February 23, 2012 at 5:42 pm

      Oh, I think you give PBO too little credit. The GOP wouldn’t be in the mess it is at the moment without gentle prodding from PBO. And by “gentle prodding” I mean taking a series of policy positions which would’ve been less than controversial in another time, which the GOP, in its reflexive hatred of anything PBO proposes, were forced to oppose—not mildly oppose, mind you, but taking the most extreme position against them. But, yes, it seems like they’ve gotten themselves into that corner on their own because PBO’s positions are in sync with the majority of the voters that they wonder why the GOP is so apoplectic. It’s like the end of the fight scene in “The Phantom Menace”, where Obi-Wan Kenobi has sliced Darth Maul in half, throwing him into a deep pit, and you can still see Darth Maul’s arms flailing and face twisted in anger. THAT is the modern Republican Party.

    • February 23, 2012 at 6:23 pm

      Actually, what our fabulous PBO and his fabulous team have done is systematically given the TeaPublicans just enough rope to hang themselves. And they have tied that rope around their sick little necks perfectly. Fully exposing their sickness called Obama Degrangement Syndrome for all the world to see. Death of the GOP is upon us and it is so much fun to watch! Our PBO is the right man for the right time and we are so lucky and blessed to have him. I often think the ones who oppose him and hate him with such a passion don’t deserve to have him as their President too. Such ignorant puppets they are.

  13. 64 hopefruit2
    February 23, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    • February 23, 2012 at 5:48 pm

      Tell people to Google gas prices for September 2008…oops. They were then exactly what they are now.

      • February 23, 2012 at 5:57 pm

        We had desperate hedge-fund/other-investor speculation on fuel prices as the financial sector was going to pieces… but the problem with oil was that while people did in fact use it, at some point prices reach a point where too few can afford it, and it adjusts downward just a tad…

        And at that point, speculators who needed a steady profit instead of another loss began dumping their holdings, which, combined with the disintegrating economy (a situation ironically further exacerbated by fuel prices) drove oil prices to absolute rock bottom levels.

        I don’t think anyone *actually* wants to promise a repeat of the circumstances leading to those low prices, as “heading into a major Depression” is not as popular an initiative as you might think.

  14. February 23, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Working together for the health of America’s children

    gave me an excuse to put up a video of FLOTUS – she gives away the President’s favorite snack.


  15. February 23, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    $40 Means an Inhaler for My Little Girl

    includes a video of PBO celebrating the tax cut


    • 69 Cathy from MN
      February 23, 2012 at 7:07 pm

      Thank you for the excellent summary – I will never understand how we can have political participants that don’t have any understanding that $40 means a lot to many families in this country!

  16. 70 donna dem 4 obama
    February 23, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    LHM, I love these pictures.

    Thanks Chips!!

  17. February 23, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    2012 Primer: The Unbelievable Truth February 21, 2012 By E. Joyce Moore

    a good read about those who will not accept the facts about PBO

    “Truth is what corresponds to fact and/or reality. We may not like what it looks like, it may be painful to accept, but how we feel about it will not negate its existence, no matter how loud we roar. In politics, in religion, in a relationship, the fact is that when we choose to believe what is a lie about a person, group, church, organization, because we fall in love with that belief, concept or person, then we are in love with nobody and nothing; and nobody and nothing loves us very much.”

  18. February 23, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    Good to hear Occupy is doing something productive

    Yesterday, a group affiliated with Occupy Wall Street submitted an astounding comment letter to the Securities and Exchange Commission. Point by point, it methodically challenges the arguments of finance industry lobbyists who want to water down last year’s historic Dodd-Frank Wall Street reforms. The lobbyists have been using the law’s official public comment period to try to kneecap the reforms, and given how arcane financial regulation can be, they might get away with it. But Occupy the SEC is fighting fire with fire, and in so doing, defying stereotypes of the Occupy movement. Its letter explains:

    In a 325-Page SEC Letter, Occupy’s Finance Gurus Take on Wall Street Lobbyists


  19. February 23, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Independents Embrace Obama As They Flee Romney And The GOP February 13, 2012 By


  20. 80 overseasgranny
    February 23, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    What terrific pictures showing …what else…yet another unenthusiastic audience. Bummer.
    Loved the picture with all the hands on his.

  21. 82 hopefruit2
    February 23, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Tweety is trying to still PBO’s singing thunder by bringing up past President’s showcasing their talents. Then he’s asking “is it a danger for this President” while showing that ridiculous RNC ad blaming PBO for the rising gas prices.

    • 83 TrumpDog
      February 23, 2012 at 6:19 pm

      Matthews is such a fucking concern troll.
      If there are 5 polls in Obama’s favor and ONE in Romney’s. guess which one Tweet will focus on?
      You got it — the one favoring Romney/.

      He is OK some days but his hair’s on fire too much and he’s also too beltway. 🙄

    • February 23, 2012 at 7:25 pm

      They did a whole segment on this singing thing on the NBC nightly news last night. They love to compare PBO with others to try and diminish whatever he does.

  22. 85 holymoly
    February 23, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    PBO sure doesn’t connect well with people 🙄

    Have you guys seen this site http://www.270towin.com might be useful later in the year.
    It also gives data for past Presidents

  23. 86 Renegade522/AuntSis
    February 23, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    Another thing I noticed at today’s motorcade watch was that is was rather small. I counted 4. Went to Washington Post and apparently they brought a smaller plan – baby Air Force One. The main plane is going thru maintenance and upgrades. That makes sense. As usual, the press corps was upset. 757 sits 3 in row and not single first class accommodation like the large plan. They make me sick.

    Also there were two helicopters flying around. Lots of police, homeland security and secret service. It was so cool and such an experience. I still cant get over the fact that my camera could not take pictures.

  24. February 23, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    Whoa. I turned on Rev Al’s show and and I am right now watching something that looks like a program that called tomorrow’s world and it is discussing the Antichrist and who and what the Antichrist is!!!!!!!!

    It seemed like a biblical show infomercial! It had to be on for 5-10 min and then it cut off and Rev Al’s show came back on an continued as if it was never interrupted! This program basically pre-emptied half a segment of Rev Al. I recorded the last few minutes so I could rewind to see if my eyes were playing tricks, but it was def on!!!!

    Did anyone else see it?

  25. 92 TrumpDog
    February 23, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    To the person that pointed out that the Obama store has iPhone cases with the Obama logo/Obama Biden —


    Argggghhhh!~ Now I gotta buy one. And I must choose ONE when they ALL look so terrific!

    They have tooooo many goodies in the store.


    • February 23, 2012 at 6:30 pm

      If’n I had an iPhone 4, I’d be all over that navy blue with the rising sun logo. Very elegant.

      • 94 TrumpDog
        February 23, 2012 at 6:56 pm

        Yep that one’s really nice!
        I’m leaning towards the white one with the Obama logo. I recently ordered a new white iPhone because I dropped my old one and cracked the damn screen. I think that cover would compliment it well.
        Plus it has the Obama logo. How cool is that????

      • 95 TrumpDog
        February 23, 2012 at 7:01 pm

        Went to the Romney store and the items are pretty blah.
        And I still think he tried to rip Obama’s logo with his tricolor “R”.
        Romney’s so pathetic. 🙄

        • February 23, 2012 at 7:32 pm

          I’ve actually seen that font and tri-color scheme a lot in logos and such. Bears no resemblance what-so-ever to the Obama logo. It’s very standard and tame and hackneyed.

    • February 23, 2012 at 7:03 pm

      I bought all 4. Curses!!!!!

    • 100 Pamela
      February 23, 2012 at 9:32 pm

      I know, I know, am SOOOO sorry… Had place my order, then changed the first order, then almost ordered it even tho I only have iPhone 3G…. In the end decided I had better wait…. But it was first thing this morning, hardest decision I’ve faced all damn day! So sorry… Which one did you choose?

  26. February 23, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    Chips did anyone see the program I described above!!!!!!!

  27. February 23, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    from my twitter timeline:

  28. February 23, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    Chips et al,

    Here is the video recorded with my Ipadl, check at the 2:14 mark to see what I mean about the video pre-empting Politics nation.

    [video src="http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/nellybell28/?action=view&current=d5cfe1b3.mp4" /]

  29. 114 Linda
    February 23, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Maryland just passed marriage equality bill…..all it needs is the Governor’s signature..

    • February 23, 2012 at 7:26 pm

      Then Maryland needs to batten the hatches because the Right will come out full bore and do whatever they can to undo that legislation. That’s already begun in Washington State…the Governor’s ink wasn’t even dry on the Bill before the Right put up two referendums to undo it. Signing Bills into law is essentially meaningless until that Law withstands every attack from the Right.

  30. February 23, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    This is funny, romney’s dog gives his last interview. This thing will not die, Letterman mentions it almost every night.

  31. February 23, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    Interesting tidbit I didn’t know and may add a complication in the Repub VP choice if Romney is the nominee. Rubio was baptized in the LDS church and spent his childhood as a Mormon.

  32. February 23, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    Good Afternoon Everyone…

    From Today’s Yahoo Front Page 🙂

    Who can beat Obama in November?

    Mitt Romney


    Rick Santorum



    280,241 votes

  33. 126 joyce
    February 23, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    looking at all the young people looking so intensely and passionately and hanging on every word, brought tears to my eyes and I’m no where near to the event . just so touching. We do love him

  34. February 23, 2012 at 7:11 pm

  35. February 23, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Susan Page is a uselss pundit. She acts like she is republican. As PBO would say, “I’m just sayin”. 🙂

  36. February 23, 2012 at 7:14 pm

  37. 131 tally
    February 23, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    I just have to share…. because if I don’t I might rip my hair out. 😉 prepare for verbosity…… apologies.

    So…. I rarely spend any time on FB. In fact, I mostly just link cool Pro PBO articles, and stuff…. occasionally one of my friends will email me something they think I’ll find cool, and it’s something they posted on their FB… so I end up there. That just happened.

    A friend of mine shared this: (wish I knew the secret to posting pics here…, but I think that’s reserved for Ms C, and rightly so…)

    I “liked” and shared…. and then…… my friend who posted it (very liberal male), got into a dick dance with a (GOP MAN) friend….. which inevitably lead to me……. having a say.

    bear with me – just so you have context:

    MY MAN FRIEND: (in answer to more convo….. but not really important….) “That is exactly the reason we, as men, should never be in this dispute. Do you really think that women consider termination of a pregnancy without considering the unborn? An abortion has got to be a deeply traumatic decision for any woman. You and I can discuss it without emotion, because it is a procedure that we will never face. This is a decision that requires that emotional buy-in that only women can have. It’s their bodies, after all.”

    GOP MAN: “for the life of me, I’ll never understand how you people completely remove the notion of the unborn fetus from this argument, giving it no voice at all, and insist that the argument includes the uterus exclusively – that’s simply an unfair argument”

    (It always pisses me off when anyone uses the phrase, “YOU PEOPLE.”)

    ME: “@[name withheld – GOP MAN] “because without the uterus, there is no possibility for a fetus. Fertilized egg ≠ fetus. The fertilized egg must implant itself into the uterine wall before ANYTHING can grow. Otherwise, we’d be growing humans in labs, especially if some corporation could make a buck on it.”

    GOP MAN: “@ Tally – it still begs to be noted that there would be no possibility for a fetus without a man and a woman behaving recklessly … and establishing that there is a uterus does not make a fetus less or more significant – where the fairness and logic erodes, in yours and [my friend] and so many others’ argument, (in this man’s worthless opinion) is when the woman believes she has the right to make this choice for her body and her own self and yet affords no choice or rights to the unborn for his/her body —– for the record, I love all living things … this includes you as well (and you too, [my friend]) – I don’t disrespect you and/or love you any less for having come to your conclusions, which I passionately disagree with, but I do feel compelled to argue for the unborn, primarily but not exclusively, because of the staggering numbers … approx. 4,000,000 million babies are born annually in this country and in excess of 1,500,000 fetuses are aborted annually … so, virtually every third baby conceived in America is killed (or “terminated” if you prefer) by abortion – I find these numbers extremely profound and more than extraordinary — I really wish we (as people) would revisit our tho’ts and notions, and give more consideration to the unborn … and would choose to not get pregnant so that they didn’t even have to make that other choice – additionally, there are schools of tho’t who suggest that abortion gnaws at a woman’s psyche and subconscious later on in her life (I wont and don’t speak to this) – I also wonder about the possibility of consequences for this behavior in the next life (I can’t and wont speak to this either) – this is all I have to say with respect to this matter”

    ……. oooooooooookaaaaaaaaaay…….

    *deep breath*

    I didn’t even want to get into his bogus numbers, because I’m sure he’s had that thrown at him before a bazillion times, (at least I hope so…) because it doesn’t matter – he will believe those figures as fact until Archangel Michael comes into his bedroom some night and personally tells him what a naïve douchebag he is.

    So I said:

    “@[name withheld GOP MAN] – I don’t need to behave recklessly to become pregnant. In fact, I don’t even need a man in the same room with me. Thanks to modern medicine and technology, I just need the seed. Technically speaking, men do not even need to be a willing participant if the females of the world decided to take over, because we outnumber you by 65%. Until then, you are free to not behave “recklessly”, including using a condom or two, or not having sex at all, but that is where your participation ends. Birth control used correctly, by both parties negates your argument entirely. If that fails, there is the Morning After pill – which doesn’t allow any implantation to the uterine wall. If you somehow miraculously become pregnant in under 12 hours, (which is almost unheard of), then the MA Pill does nothing. After all of that, I will take your argument more to heart when men of your opinion decide to care more about actual maternity care, pre/post natel care, and life after birth, than just birth itself. That includes ending wars and getting rid of the death penalty. Until that happens, all I can see is about how you want to control something you don’t have, and have zero understanding of what it means and feels like to possess. if you’re unclear in any of the biological details, I advise you to view this: There are six parts, and the sexiest man alive narrates it. :)”

    yeah…. I’m linking it again, because it’s AWESOME.

    • 132 tally
      February 23, 2012 at 7:27 pm

      awe – I can’t see video…… I haz a sad. 😥

    • February 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm

      Tally, as a male, I really have no right to say anything on this, but I will say a couple things. First, in regard to GOP man, I love it when people throw out something as an argument “additionally, there are schools of tho’t who suggest that abortion gnaws at a woman’s psyche and subconscious later on in her life” and then add, (I don’t and won’t to this). Of course, merely by throwing it out there, he is speaking to it. And he did it more than once. To me, when someone uses that technique, they have lost all credibility to be involved in the discussion.

      Now, just to make something clear, and don’t get all pissed off, I am basically anti-abortion. However, that is an easy thing to say since it is not a decision I will ever have to make for myself. And that is where men need to step back for a moment. It is easy to be against doing something when the actual decision can never be one you have to make. I do not know how I would feel if I were female and faced with an unwanted pregnancy, and it is ludicrous, therfore, for me to tell a woman how she should act in that circumstance.

      Therefore, I am firmly pro-choice. Just because I am unable to be in a situation which would provide me the opportunity to make a choice, I have no right to tell someone else that they should not have the ability to make that choice. So when I say I am anti-abortion, I mean it on a purely personal level, a level I admit puts me out of any chance to actually put my believe into practice. I can say I agree with the argument of GOP man about fetal rights, but I think that is more because of the “high moral grounds” it allows me to survey the rest of the world from. And in case you didn’t get it, that was a somewhat snarky comment.

      Finally, one could make the argument from a theological point of view that God does not totally dispprove of abortions. Miscarriages are technically called abortions, and the rigid fundamentalist would at God caused the miscarriage for whatever reason. I know that is shaky ground, because the obvious response is that man should not try to put himself on the same level of decision making as God, yet at the same time, those who say that, presume to hold the same level of judgement as God on many others things in life.

      • 136 yardarm756
        February 23, 2012 at 8:48 pm

        I’m with you all the way japa21. I would like to relate a personal experience that speaks to some of these things.
        Long ago, about ’61, my wife became pregnant(1st time) and we were in thrilled. Pre-natal care was top notch at a military hospital(Catholic doctrine). During the second trimester my wife stopped gaining weight. The doctors/nurses expressed concern for lack of weight gain. My wife became ill and was confined to bed and was told her pregnancy would be difficult. Still no weight gain and a wife getting sicker and sicker. I was told that everything must be done to save the child.
        Bottom line is that my wife went into a coma and I had a verbal battle with the hospital to induce labor in hopes of saving my wife over a fetus that hadn’t grown in close to 4 weeks. The fetus was so badly decomposed that it’s sex couldn’t be determined without an autopsy.
        My wife survived and we managed to have 3 kids. However, that experience. left me shook up.
        I vowed to never again sacrifice a woman’s life or judgement before that of a fetus in spite of any doctrine or rules. Sorry if this offends any one.

        • 137 PurpleShoesLA
          February 23, 2012 at 9:06 pm

          Yardarm, thank you for sharing your story. ** off to my corner to weep **

          • 138 yardarm756
            February 23, 2012 at 9:27 pm

            Thanks PurpleShoesLA. I’ve carried that for a long time and ithelped build my belief system in certain religious beliefs and practices. PEACE.

      • 139 desertflower
        February 23, 2012 at 9:03 pm

        thanks for your honesty,japa. No one is FOR abortion.What we are FOR is the choice to decide for ourselves what we do with our bodies. What I hate. is that women are 50% of that equation, yet bare 100% of the blame. Funny, in all these discussions over abortion, I have never heard, not one time, the role that the man has played in this situation and what HIS responsibility is. Never.So I don’t want some man lecturing ME about what I should and shouldn’t be allowed to do.I find it deeply offensive.Even MORE than deeply offensive.Any woman that finds herself faced with this, has thought long and hard.Whether she believes that this choice is hers or not, she does not take this path lightly. Can any of these self righteous, sanctimonious men explain to me, why they would disrespect a woman SO much, that he would put her IN this situation? Where exactly IS the man’s responsibility in this? Last time I checked, I couldn’t get pregnant by myself.

        God has nothing to do with miscarriages.I’ve had 2. I’m pretty sure that God had nothing to do with any of that. To think that there are people in govt. that would imprison or otherwise punish women for having a miscarriage is also repulsive. Got to love that “small govt”…except if you happen to be a woman. What happens inside my body should not concern anyone but ME, and my husband. I reject the argument of God injected into this conversation. Sometimes things just, are.

    • 141 TrumpDog
      February 23, 2012 at 8:18 pm

      YOU ROCK.

      Thank you for speaking up!

  38. 142 EDP4BHO
    February 23, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Thanks donna. I was at work when I posted, and then “Chips Gonzalez” (as in Speedy) posted a new thread, so I hurried to copy my comment. I don’t get to post much from work, nor read, so once I’m home, am able to catch up. And thanks to everyone else. I realized that I don’t have Making Work Pay, and didn’t itemize, so that would be an explanation. I just needed to know because I am not standing for folks putting my President down for helping the ingrates.

  39. 147 LDS
    February 23, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    Joyce, I was thinking the same thing. They are holding on to “hope”. After hearing the whole speech, what tore at my heart was, “We don’t have the luxury to pretend.” He told them the truth and it was worth sleeping over and standing in long lines to hear. Simply the TRUTH.

    The days of lying and tickling our ears telling us what we want to hear just to get a vote are so over.
    My heart is so filled with joy after this speech for these young people and this President who has a long term vision for this country.

    The opposite is true for the clowns performaning at the last debate. I cannot find the stomach to watch the whole thing. What a marked contrast to their way of thinking(if you can call it that). Our generations to come deserve so much more. This President is laying futuristic ground work for our environment, health and well being. The other side just don’t get it or they are so blinded with hate , ignorance and greed, they could care less.
    This election is so important for us all. We don’t have the luxury of taking anything or anyone for granted.

  40. February 23, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    I just read this on the Angry Black Lady blog and think it deserves to be spread far and wide. This is a person talking about Texas, where the trans-vaginal ultrasounds are already being enforced (apparently even before the law passes). How anyone can stand up for a law like this is beyond my imagining.


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