07
Sep
11

‘white house jobs plan takes shape’

Steve Benen: We’ll get a better sense of the new White House jobs agenda tomorrow night, but as the plan comes together, some of the details appear to be leaking. According to several overnight accounts, President Obama will present an economic package that totals about $300 billion, including both investments and tax cuts:

According to people familiar with the White House deliberations, two of the biggest measures in the president’s proposals for 2012 are expected to be a one-year extension of a payroll tax cut for workers and an extension of expiring jobless benefits. Together those two would total about $170 billion….

The White House is also considering a tax credit for businesses that hire the unemployed. That could cost about $30 billion. Obama has also called for public works projects, such as school construction. Advocates of that plan have called for spending of $50 billion, but the White House proposal is expected to be smaller.

… Other reports indicated Obama also intends to push “a program to prevent teacher layoffs,” presumably through aid to states, which would also be encouraging.

I would imagine the details of the agenda will be changing through tomorrow afternoon, but these early reports suggest the White House is at least aiming in the right direction …. these preliminary leaks suggest the president and his team are on the right track, though hopefully they can be convinced to aim even higher with an even more ambitious approach.

Full post here


128 Responses to “‘white house jobs plan takes shape’”


  1. September 7, 2011 at 10:02 am

    State aid could save a lot of jobs. It could have prevented a lot of layoffs if the House hadn’t blocked it.

  2. 2 halo
    September 7, 2011 at 10:08 am

    “these preliminary leaks suggest the president and his team are on the right track, though hopefully they can be convinced to aim even higher with an even more ambitious approach.”

    Yes. Please be more ambitious, Sir!

    • 3 Sue in Minnesota
      September 7, 2011 at 10:17 am

      Did you write the Administration? Please do.

    • 5 dun
      September 7, 2011 at 12:23 pm

      The American people needs to be more ambitious the President already there, we needs to catch up with him.
      I stand by the President 100% and I believe he knows what he is doing. He was smart when he ran and I don’t think some how he because dumb after becoming President. He knows a whole lot more then us street smart people. he can’t do much until 2012 and even if he loose in 2012 I Thanks God he was there when we was falling in to Hell and he stop the fall now it up to the american people to help us reach heaven. It is not up to the President along, he shouldn’t have to give a big speech to make us know that he is the right man for the Jobs. All this talk about he should do this he should do that is just crazy insane talk. either we are for america come back or we are not. We will see in 2012 just who we are for. The Man don’t have to keep giving speeches to keep us involve. We should know that already.
      Just Vote people that the only thing that will help him change the way this country is going. Give him what he need or let him and his family go and be happy. No matter what happen He Will Be OK but will we. he is fighting for us not him, Let’s get behind him and fight for what we need and stop acting like children who want him to be almighty, he just a man who need our votes to move this country forward and if he get it we will move forward if not we will go back while he and his family go
      forward. The End

      • 6 sjterrid
        September 7, 2011 at 2:55 pm

        Dun thank you for this comment. I agree he told us not to give the keys back and people decided to stay home. He’s been working hard for all of us, but no matter what he does it’s never good enough for some people. He said he can’t do it alone, he need us. I know I will try to do what I Can to see him reelected.

    • 8 desertflower
      September 7, 2011 at 10:36 am

      Exactly. I posted that yesterday as well.

    • 9 Mel
      September 7, 2011 at 12:13 pm

      Debz this is amaizng report of FACTS can thiis article be viral or tweet. or put on face book it’s really aneye opener
      and I hope people think and think hard, because if we loose it will be a nightmare for the country. I will Post this in My Comunity
      room E-mail it to all of my Senior friends, neighbors.

  3. September 7, 2011 at 10:11 am

    I suspect everything in the speech will have had bi-partisan support in the past to really highlight the GOP obstruction. Since we know the GOP will scream “deficit!” and block it I would have liked to see it bigger, but by the same token since it is relatively small it will make the GOP blocking it and their real reasons even more apparent.

  4. 12 CTGirl
    September 7, 2011 at 10:12 am

    One thing we can bet on in Vegas, it will be too small for the left and too big for the right…let the party begin! It is either not enough or too much with our fringe groups.

    • 13 utaustinliberal
      September 7, 2011 at 10:27 am

      You nailed my sentiments exactly CTGirl. It’s too small for the PL and emoprogs. He’s not bold enough. He should propose an extreme left wing nut job jobs plan that has no hell of ever getting any support from the center; which is what the country is. We are a center left or center right country and he shouldn’t propose some extreme leftwing jobs plan that makes no sense to the majority of the voters in the country. The right will also say it’s some radical plan and President Obama is a socialist who wants to create some welfare state. These days one cannot tell the difference between the crazy left and the crazy right.

    • 14 Sue in Minnesota
      September 7, 2011 at 10:29 am

      This is already playing out and he hasn’e even opened his mouth. Woulda, coulda, shoulda….it’s a tired mantra. We have an often repeated little ditty in our house, “don’t should on yourself.” 😀 I am going to stick with what is.

      Please alert all you know to the address tomorrow night, spread the word on twitter, let’s encourage everyone to tune in.
      I also think today would be a good day to proactively signal support for the President, job creation, workers rights and standing with middle class workers and families. And the same for tomorrow.

      I am a writer, caller will continue to call Congress people today in support of the Presidents plan. Don’t forget to call or write the White House.

      Let’s focus on expanding the positive today and tomorrow. Namaste.

      • September 7, 2011 at 12:43 pm

        Your harpoon has hit the whale straight and true. You’d make a damn good shipmate. 🙂 (changed avatar to support church event).

        • 16 Sue in Minnesota
          September 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm

          I am deeply flattered, and thank you for your vote of confidence. Good thing it’s a virtual ship, reality would prove me to be a sea sick, bumbling fool. I suppose I could help out in the galley, barf bag close at hand. 😉

          Someday, would love to hear about your experiences with the Cuban Missile Crisis…..I’m sure you’ve got some stories 😯

    • September 7, 2011 at 11:03 am

      Ding, ding, ding!! And to boot, they have zero solutions to anythng!!

  5. September 7, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Benen and MSNBC likely have the same unnamed sources as the WSJ and Bloomberg did not 12 hours ago – will be interesting to see the tenor of responses in this thread from folks who don’t want to discuss anything unless it comes out of the Presidents mouth.

    • September 7, 2011 at 10:21 am

      Lol! I must say, this is plouffe doing the pragmatic Thingy again!
      I hope their is more than meets the eye!

    • 22 halo
      September 7, 2011 at 10:23 am

      I felt like I was boxing a wall with some folks here last night.

    • September 7, 2011 at 10:30 am

      I would like to hear the plan and then see an analysis of it. I don’t trust the PL or any sources anymore.

    • 24 utaustinliberal
      September 7, 2011 at 10:31 am

      Str, I respect Steve Benen but I still want to hear the speech from the horses mouth; The President of the United States, Barack Obama. This isn’t the full plan. The speech and plan are being re-written and will be tweaked and changed until T-Minus Zero. I don’t need the media telling me what they think is or isn’t in the speech and making up some BS narrative. Let the President have his time to lay out HIS jobs plan to the people and then we can all discuss it; instead of adapting some GWB doctrine of pre-emptive strike.

    • 26 Debz
      September 7, 2011 at 10:34 am

      Read Benen’s post, he is using the same unnamed souces “close to the” Wh discussions. Why doesn’t every one wait until he gives the speech!!

      • September 7, 2011 at 11:05 am

        Exactly. I don’t have any problems with anyone discussing what’s out there, personally I just think that we (or at least I) will be best served by waiting to hear directly from the president.

        • 28 jacquelineoboomer
          September 7, 2011 at 11:44 am

          Yes, I think we all learned that during the health care reform “era” (seemed like 10 years of the “leaks,” much of which didn’t materialize). I’ll wait for the actual plan, and the rationale behind it, from the President.

          • September 7, 2011 at 11:49 am

            🙂 🙂

            My new toy. Chips just showed me how to do the smilies.

            But, yep JacquelineBoomer. Agreed. I tend to save myself a lot of stress by not engaging in the discussion until I hear. It just works for me that way.

          • 30 kefauver
            September 7, 2011 at 4:36 pm

            We heard the same crap about Social Security and Medicare cuts during the budget debates for 6 months. Those cuts never materialized. Neither did the rumor about raising the retirement age to 67. I’m all for waiting on the “finished product.”

    • 31 TrumpDog
      September 7, 2011 at 10:51 am

      I’ll wait to hear what is actually said before I draw my conclusions.

      • 32 prettyfoot58
        September 7, 2011 at 11:38 am

        LIKE I SAID IN A PREVIOUS POST….

        WHETHER THE PLAN IS BIG OR WHETHER IT IS SMALL…I WILL SUPPORT THE JOBS PLAN….

        BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THIS PRESIDENT……..

        THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES

    • 33 Desraye
      September 7, 2011 at 12:35 pm

      The unamed source could be anybody.

    • 34 Sue in Minnesota
      September 7, 2011 at 1:37 pm

      Speaking for myself, I don’t mind an expanded discussion on potential courses of action. Most of the judgement being passed here is not about the actual policy it is about the President’s leadership. IMO that is wrong, speculation based on a non event is hot air. If you believe a certain course of action is beneficial, state what you would do and why. I respect your analysis StR, open up the discussion about possible approaches. I’m happy to listen, and I stand to learn as I am not well versed in matters of economics.

      But I am amused by the emotional angst we express here, myself included, inspired by our speculating MSM, and the judgements passed based purely on speculation. And yet from time to time, we engage in exactly that behavior here.

  6. September 7, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Mark Halperin on Hardball: It’s not in the GOP’s political interest to help the President make the economy better . . . it’s not in their interest.

    • 36 Linda
      September 7, 2011 at 10:33 am

      I cannot even watch this guy for the 16 seconds….

      • 37 anniebella
        September 7, 2011 at 11:43 am

        What fools like Halperin don’t get is they would be helping the American people and this country they claim to love, it’s not about helping President Obama, it’s about helping the American people who are suffreing. That’s the big difference in these radical T-Republicans and President Obama. The President care about the people, it’s all about politics, the party, with the T-Republicans. I’m like you guys, I can’t stand to look at that Halperin SOB.

        • 38 Sue in Minnesota
          September 7, 2011 at 1:49 pm

          He’s invested in the political. He is invested in a win/lose game. Perhaps when you have a job, influence, and a healthy income you can treat it as just that, a game. The majority of Americans can not afford to be so cavalier, the actions of government determine in a large way the quality and the opportunities that are available to us as Americans. And we have to think about one another, America after all is the collective, it is not an individual. I believe President Obama is always considering those of us whose lives are impacted by the quality of our federal government. I refuse to believe he considers this a game.

          Dick Halperin doesn’t give a shit about the lives of Americans, he cares if he is on the winning side of the political football game. I can not relate to him in any respect, and frankly don’t give a crap about what he has to say.

    • September 7, 2011 at 10:37 am

      Halperin hasn’t been paying attention to those Republican townhalls. If he thinks going back to their districts in 2012 and saying vote for me because I did everything in my power to wreck the economy is a winning message then he’s been living inside the Beltway too long.

    • 40 desertflower
      September 7, 2011 at 10:38 am

      Thanks, Jackie…didn’t see this before I posted the link below:) Great minds:)

    • September 7, 2011 at 10:39 am

      And he’s okay with this? So tanking the economy fine as a political strategy?

    • September 7, 2011 at 11:06 am

      That guy has no creditility.

    • 44 prettyfoot58
      September 7, 2011 at 11:35 am

      HALPERN SHOULD NOT BE ON THE AIR….HE IS NOT WORTHY TO SPEAK THE PRESIDENT’S NAME…WHATEVER COMES OUT OF HIS MOUTH…STINKS WORSE THAN HORSE MANURE…..

      I WILL NEVER FORGET WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE PRESIDENT….

    • 45 Blue
      September 7, 2011 at 11:38 am

      At least he has stopped pretending that he’s a Liberal, and he has all the Republican talking points down pat, I mean all!

      • September 7, 2011 at 11:54 am

        Funny how he moves from one Republican candidate to another. Me thinks he is an opportunist hoping that he’ll settle on the one that wins the nomination so that he can have access.

        And these are the people that call PBO “weak.”

        Before I saw the documentary last night on the History Channel on how OBL was killed, I knew my president was no weakling. But his will of steel in that particular period when he singularly had to make the decision after listening to all his advisors and their points of view, just super-reinforced my respect for this guy.

        Hence I tweeted last night and today that after watching that program anyone who calls PBO “weak” needs to have his or her head examined.

        • 47 Sue in Minnesota
          September 7, 2011 at 2:06 pm

          Spine of steel, and balls of brass. POTUS is SOSBOB!

          Not being able to watch this, is the my only regret for cancelling our cable subscription. Frustrated!

          Did anyone else get their t-shirts in the mail yesterday?………I’m rocking mine today….Si Se Puede ! Also got a FIGHT BACK 2012 from the DCCC…….my fall wardrobe is complete 😀

  7. September 7, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Wow, I can’t stand that tool.

  8. September 7, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Good Morning Everyone

    2 calls to action

    1. We need to show support to the President BEFORE the speech as well as after it. So contact the whitehouse TODAY and tell him you support a jobs bill and will work tirelessly to help him get it passed.
    President Barack Obama – (Democrat)
    Twitter BarackObama
    Web Form: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
    Phone: 202-456-1111

    2. Van Jones and the American Dream movement is requesting CNN allow them a post speech analysis (like the Tea Party got after the president’s state of the union speech). They have a petition you can sign that shows your support for this idea. Even if they don’t get to be on the air it is good to see a push back to the tea party. Every time I have watched Van Jones speak he has been supportive of the President.

    Tell CNN: “Give the American Dream Movement air time to respond to President Obama’s jobs speech on Thursday, just like you did with the tea party.”

    http://civic.moveon.org/rebuildpetition/cnn/?id=30666-5232988-O_ACwSx&t=2

    • 51 MTmarilyn
      September 7, 2011 at 11:02 am

      Great idea. I signed!

    • 54 Sue in Minnesota
      September 7, 2011 at 2:29 pm

      Done and Done….also e-mailed my Congressional Representatives. Throw in your comments that action is needed to unlock the log jam in the judicary committee. Also mention your support for the President’s nominees; Alan Krueger to the White House Council of Economic Advisors, and Rich Cordray to head the CFPB.

      In writing to the President and my Democratic Senators, I reiterated Jimmy Hoffa’s message, “they started the war,” but added, we will win this war against the American people. I told PBO that we were communicating, recruiting, and working to keep his leadership in the Whitehouse and to vote in a functional Congress. Send him your support.

      Check Credo and MoveOn.org websites with some regularity for petition drives, and action initiatives. Letters to CNN in addition to signing the petition would also be helpful, there is plenty of concern to be expressed regarding their selective ‘news’ and political viewpoints.

      Tomorrow would be a good day for a money bomb…..what do you all think?

    • 56 a4alice
      September 7, 2011 at 2:57 pm

      done and done and tweeted! 🙂

  9. September 7, 2011 at 10:32 am

    You must read this Mother Jones story about Chris Christie’s speech at the Koch Brothers retreat. Horrid. When I think he was near my President, I gag.

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/audio-chris-christie-koch-brothers-seminar

  10. September 7, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Two more thing

    1. Yesterday I added a ton of local media contacts for Texas and Maryland (thanks ladies). Please research local media for your area or for your state and post it here. I will add your info later today. folks watch a lot more local news than national and it is on in many more times slots during the day. Gathering this info now will pay off later.

    2. On a related note KTVU in the San Francisco area had a nice report about the bill last night. A stimulus of 300 billion would be incredibly helpful. that is almost half the size of the original stimulus and it is targeted on jobs, education, and tax cuts for middle class which are all great ideas.

    We need to share any good talking points we come across and be ready to hit twitter, blogs, and Facebook with our support of the President.

    • 64 Sue in Minnesota
      September 7, 2011 at 2:42 pm

      Please twitter calls to watch the President’s address. Let’s try to drive the viewership up, up, up!

      Anyone planning get together’s….I have just a small group of 5 coming. Handing out lists of alternate information sources and web sites, Planned Parenthood/Naral information and contacts, contacts for our Minnesota Congressional reps, and the charts posted here 01SEP showing the Recovery Act Worked, and Jared Bernsteins commentary. Just trying to keep my buds informed, 3 political animals and 2 not so much, but concerned citizens none the less. ( Maybe I should solicit for donations to President Obama’s re-election fund 💡

      I have to say 4 years ago I would never have found myself doing this…..President Obama has inspired me, and although I’ve always cared,
      opened my eyes to ways I can actively participate in OUR government.

    • 65 a4alice
      September 7, 2011 at 2:58 pm

      Thanks WIW!

  11. September 7, 2011 at 10:43 am

    FIRED UP…!!

    READY TO GO..!!! 😀

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  12. September 7, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Well, they are smarter than we are . But, at some point, you would think they would feed DC!
    Seeing how everyday that is what the republicans do!
    Anyways, I know the President has a plan!

  13. 74 Cindy Sweatt
    September 7, 2011 at 10:50 am

    This sounds like the President is trying to come up with a jobs plan today. I am totally confident that his plan is very well thought out and has been studied thoroughly. I am anxious to hear him speak. It will be interesting to see how the media will twist his words around to make it sound like he said something he didn’t. It will be sickening to hear how the repubs change what will actually help the nation into some crazy anti-American socialist plot to destroy America. Do all of you here trust the American Dream Movement? I am not so sure. I went to a Move-on meeting, and it seemed like a lot of complaining with no action (except trying to make the complaints louder) and there were people there trying to put down the President. I was glad to be there to point out the error of their ways!

    • 75 Debz
      September 7, 2011 at 10:56 am

      Move-On needs to disband. How can a group created to support Bill NAFTA,DADT DOMA and the little blue dress Clinton, be so anti-Obama. I am tired of these “progressives”

    • 77 GOVCHRIS1988
      September 7, 2011 at 11:23 am

      Well, what do you expect from a group that was only formulated to try to stop the public from talking about Clinton getting a hummer in the Oval. It was a laughingstock when it was created. We would be laughing if someone created a Larry Craig Move On, or a Ted Haggard Move On. How in the hell did that group ever become the beacon of Progressive Politics? The only thing they are known for is the Clinton shielding and that stupid “General Betrayus” thing. They haven’t lobbied for legislation properly, they never have organized properly, they don’t even know how Washington works in order to be effective. They are useless. Not a surprise to see their members do more bitching than planning.

    • 78 Desraye
      September 7, 2011 at 12:39 pm

      Did they response back? I glad you was there to put them in there place. I bet most of them only read the Daily KOS.

    • September 7, 2011 at 12:58 pm

      Even when they put out good videos I refuse to link to anything even remotely connected to Move On. Bad politics all the way around.

    • 80 Sue in Minnesota
      September 7, 2011 at 6:25 pm

      Cindy I have been considering going to one of their local council meetings. But I would not remain if the group think is counter productive to supporting our President. I don’t have a problem speaking up, as long I haven’t lost control of my emotions.

      I asked to be removed from their mailing list, but I do check their website, for petitions that I can include my signature on. Best to work most closely with the Presidents re-election engine and campaign. Also we are becoming a force in our own right 😀

  14. September 7, 2011 at 11:33 am

    HELP!! How do I make a smiley face? Can someone tell me, please?

  15. 87 prettyfoot58
    September 7, 2011 at 11:44 am

    BY THE WAY I THOUGHT THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE ENDEAVOR WAS IN PARTNER WITH BUSINESS AND NOT FUNDED ENTIRELY BY GOV…..

    WHAT TIME IS THE REPUB DEBATE ….

    • 88 anniebella
      September 7, 2011 at 11:54 am

      I’m not sure about the debate time, I think it is 8pm. But my time for it is NO TIME. This gal won’t be watching them.

      • September 7, 2011 at 11:57 am

        Co-sign anniebella. This mama won’t be watching that trainwreck. I wish the History Channel would replay the documentary on how OBL was killed. I would watch it over and again.

        Now, that’s substance!!

        If not hope Lifetime will have something interesting.

  16. 94 jplcharron
    September 7, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Obama needs to do a better job explaining WHY his jobs plan is the plan the American people should choose. I hope he focuses more on that than on how the GOP has been playing the obstructionist role for the past year (though they definitely have been, people don’t want to listen to the blame game and bipartisanship — we saw that with the monstrosity that was the debt ceiling debate).

    Increasingly, the conversation around this presidential administration is turning into an attack on Keynesian economics. Conservative party-liners hold that the stimulus didn’t do anything (though the CBO disagrees with them) and they will assault Obama’s new jobs plan in the same way. Make a case to the people that is irrefutable, Mr. Obama.

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    http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

    • 95 Debz
      September 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm

      He will be doing that on the campaign trail. A joint session of Congress may not be the appropriate forum to be calling out repugs for all they have done.

      • 96 jacquelineoboomer
        September 7, 2011 at 12:14 pm

        I agree, Debz. He will make them squirm just a little, but he always acts appropriately – out of respect for our overarching form of government. Republicans should try that.

      • 97 jplcharron
        September 7, 2011 at 1:03 pm

        His approval ratings are tanking. “Calling out” the republicans isn’t going to do him much good on the campaign trail. Why would it work now if it didn’t during the debt ceiling debate, where the GOP’s obstruction was at its most egregious? If anything, it just gives the GOP more ammo in their argument that the president is dividing this country, is a “leftist” (don’t you love how that word has suddenly become the new go-to for conservative media?) extremist, and doesn’t care about this country.

        His focus needs to be on why his plan and vision will be successful, not why his plan hasn’t been successful because of this or that…

        In other words: look forward to new successes, don’t recount the past.

        • 98 jplcharron
          September 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm

          I agree with you jacqueline. The president is usually very appropriate and respectful. I just hope he keeps those squirm-inducing moments to a minimum, while focusing on his own plan. By attacking Republicans (even though they deserve to be rebuked in some way), he is letting them set the playing field. He needs to go on the offensive and sell us his own plan, instead of playing defense telling us why the GOP is screwing everything up. That’s all I was saying.
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          http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

    • 99 Desraye
      September 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm

      It’s President Obama, not Mr. Obama. Please stop telling the president what he needs to do.

      • 100 jplcharron
        September 7, 2011 at 1:11 pm

        Oh please. I meant no offense in writing that. I’m sure Barack Obama is both a President and a mister.

        And come on. What are comments good for if not to voice opinions and other things we think? Surely the point of comments sections on websites isn’t limited to criticizing others’ posts in ways that are generally unproductive, right Desraye?

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        http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

      • 101 chiara
        September 7, 2011 at 3:57 pm

        It is very common and not necessarily a sign of disrespect to not use “president” every time someone writes something about him.

        It is our duty and our right to express our opinions to the president and any other elected official who’s work affects our lives. I love this president, I trust who he is as a person and I trust when he says that he wants us to keep pushing him, to keep pressuring him and to let our voices be heard that he is being genuine. I honestly don’t think he wants people to just agree with everything he does. I know I don’t but I understand why he is doing things I don’t agree with and I’m ok with it. That reality aside, I support him wholeheartedly and will work for him to win again but part of my support will be to voice my opinion when I agree and disagree with him.

        I personally believe the Jobs Plan needs to be very big and very bold because I don’t see any downside of proposing something like that. We all know that the republicans are going to kill whatever he proposes so why not go for the gold and propose something that really would spur growth. The reality may be that $300 billion will not be enough when you factor in that over half would be extending the payroll tax holiday that already exists. That will maintain a financial benefit for middle income families but currently that is not creating jobs it’s just maintaining a certain level. We all know that unemployment insurance needs to be extended because doing otherwise would damage the economy and the middle class but again, that does not necessarily create jobs. Infrastructure is what could have an immediate impact on jobs and if it is too small it won’t make the dent that it needs to.

        Again, if he goes bold it would be the best juxtaposition against the obstructionist republicans. We know he is unlikely to get even the most timid plan through Congress so proposing something smaller to only have it killed as well is only a downside for him on all levels.

        I’m not prejudging his speech at all because although I know the White House has leaked certain things on purpose I don’t believe they would leak the “new” ideas that they may have. So far everything the media thinks they know is stuff that’s been talked about for a while. I believe the President will come through with something bigger than expected, at least that’s my hope.

  17. September 7, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Guys, this may sound crazy, but I don’t think that there is a division in the repug party between Perry and Rove. I think they encouraged Perry to run as a foil for so called moderate Romney. They knew people wouldn’t take Bachmann seriously so they fronted Perry to put a face to the Tea Party, then they all gang up on him by showing all the craziness he’s for (which they are also for, but are trying to hide because they want to get elected) and thereby paint their guy– Mr. Good, Common sense repug as a moderate. When confronted by the scary, psycho nature of Perry, Romney can come off as someone who can save the repug party from the craziness. It’s a con job. Rove and Koch already know that Dems were going to run by painting repugs as the Tea Party. So to counteract that, they started their own “war”to separate Romney from the crazies thereby making him more appealing to moderate Repugs who may vote Dem and to independents who aren’t at all pleased with the Tea Party. This is a fricking inside job. They are playing a game. Damned repugs! And people are falling for this bullshit.
    ps- for those who will say: “what about Romeny courting the TPs?” I say, it’s the right move because EVERY candidate is doing so. It would be suspicious if he weren’t. Koch & Ho’s know that Perry and the TP are just ground work, the real prize for them is Romney, Independents, Moderate Repugs and sell-out Democrats. If I weren’t so disgusted, I’d be blown away by the sheer genius of these stinking bastards. We are being played. Perry is never, will never be the nominee. He’s just there for Romney: he’s the fall guy who’s supposed to make Romeny look good. Fuckers.

    • September 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm

      pps- Perry also serves as a smoke screen for Romney. Notice nobody is talking about Romney unless Romney wants to be talked about ie: his stupid economic plan. No more Romeny is awkward video, no more flip-flopping clips. The guy is virtually invisible unless he wants to be seen, the only time people mentioned Romney since Perry came into the game was to compare poll numbers which don’t matter now because romeny has time. Perry is nobody. He’s just a cover for the real goldenboy.

      • 105 jacquelineoboomer
        September 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm

        Wow – that’s a great analysis, lisa, which I had not thought about – appreciate it.

        • 106 prettyfoot58
          September 7, 2011 at 12:25 pm

          INTERESTING…THEN ROLLINS WAS TRULY A SABOTEUR IN BACHMAN’S CAMPAIGN…

          I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WOULD BE ROMNEY BECAUSE HE IS TRYING TO SEEM “”RATIONAL””…UMMMM SANE…ALTHOUGHHE STANDS FOR THE SAME THING…I WOULD NOT TRUST ANY OF THEM…

          I SEE ROMNEY AS THE TROJAN HORSE….BEWARE…

          • 107 Debz
            September 7, 2011 at 12:35 pm

            Notice Romney hasn’t even been engaging the other repugs. He has been running a general election campaign since the day he announced. Since he hasn’t changed strategy after Perry entered the race, he must be sure he is going to win the nomination.

    • September 7, 2011 at 12:07 pm

      Interesting thought…..VERY interesting. Definitely sounds like a Rove plan.

    • 109 Debz
      September 7, 2011 at 12:10 pm

      I agree, Lisa. Rove may not care for Perry, but his group is still going to spend millions to take down PBO. Rove is a snake and he will support what ever loony repug is the nominee. He may go on cable news to put down Perry, but only because he thinks Perry has too many negatives, but behind the scenes, he will support him and the oil men who back Perry.

    • September 7, 2011 at 12:16 pm

      Perry, Walker, Christie and McDonnell were all at that secret Koch retreat in Colorado. I don’t think Romney appeals to the Koch’s, they wouldn’t trust him enough. Ras was the first polling company to show Perry polling better against President Obama than Romney – to take away Romney’s “I’m the only candidate who could beat Obama” talking point. Now others are showing it as well.

      The Koch’s are true believers in their politics – they want a true believer, or in very least somebody who they could completely control. Romney passed mandated healthcare in Massachusetts, and has been for and against everything in the last three years. You don’t go from being a liberal Republican in your mid 40’s to a rock ribbed Tea Bagger in your 60’s. They know he’s just saying whatever he needs to to get elected.

      • 111 prettyfoot58
        September 7, 2011 at 12:28 pm

        BUT IF ROMNEY TURNS OUT TO BE THE NOMINEE THEY ARE NOT GOING ROGUE…THEY WILL GET BEHIND ROMNEY….HE IS THE TROJAN HORSE….THEY WILL DO A BAIT AND SWITCH…..

        THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES

      • September 7, 2011 at 8:41 pm

        Perry, Walker, Christie and McDonnell aren’t in play for 2012. Koch & Ho’s are business men at heart. they want a yes man like Romney. The problem with Perry is that he’s so stupid, he thinks he’s smart and could be a loose canon if given too much leeway, plus he’s not electable and stinks too much of Bushism. Koch & Ho’s may be showing support for these people, but I guarantee you, Koch money is going to the Romney campaign. These men aren’t billionaires for no reason. they are vile and unscrupulous, but they are smart and they-repugs- unlike Dems, know how to form unsavory alliances in order to get the outcome they want which is ultimately: someone NOT PBO in office in 2012. Perry is just a foil for Romney.

    • 114 GOVCHRIS1988
      September 7, 2011 at 12:40 pm

      One of these guys will be the nominee and the nominee will be backed by the Republican establishment most strongly. Remember, John McCain pulled in the most votes for a losing candidate. If it were a race in 2000, judging his popular vote totals in 2008 against Al Gore’s in 2000, he would have won in a hell of a landslide. The Republican tactics will be to keep that 59 Million at bay while trying to decimate Barack Obama’s 69 Million vote total. Thats the game at play here. Destroy our votes while keeping theirs primed up. We are so polarized in this nation, that whoever wins that nomination will get at least 45% of the vote. If Mitt’s the nominee, it will be the same game with the VP nominee that it was in 2008. If it is Perry, it will be that in reverse.

      • 115 jplcharron
        September 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm

        Interesting, GOVCHRIS. I look at it in a slightly different way, though. The demographic that is “in play” here is the large group of people who consider themselves moderate dems, moderate repubs, and independents. Who appeals to them the most?

        The rest of the country might as well be set in stone. They aren’t changing who they are voting for. It doesn’t matter who the candidate is for the GOP.

        Looking at it this way, things looks a little bit brighter for Obama’s chances next year. Rick Perry will not appeal to moderates, no matter how much as he tries. Romney may, and if he is on the ticket, Obama might have a tougher time. Hopefully people will do their research and see what pro-business means when it comes out of Romney’s mouth.
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        http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

    • 116 jplcharron
      September 7, 2011 at 1:52 pm

      I’m sorry, this is really interesting, but I have to disagree. Romney doesn’t need a straw man to work against. He (and every other GOP candidate) just paints Obama as an absolute failure, and runs against that. Rick Perry is a strong contender. He is leading pretty much every GOP candidate poll out there right now by a large margin (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html). And his initial declaration to run was a while ago, so it can’t all be attributed to that initial jump every candidate seems to get when they declare.

      I’m not saying I think he is going to end up the candidate, I’m just saying he is a serious contender, not some “smoke screen.” I think Romney will end up with the nod, which scares me a bit, being a guy who supports Obama.

      Another problem I have with your post: Republicans aren’t evil, they aren’t crazies, or whack-jobs, or stinking bastards. Why can’t we hate the positions people take instead of the people themselves? It does Americans no good to hate one another. I believe that every GOP candidate out there right now really believes that they would be good for this country. I just don’t agree with them. This is what separates me from someone like Rush Limbaugh, who not only disagrees with the President, but also routinely proclaims that Obama hates this country and wants to destroy it. We are better than that.

      We are also better than Glenn Beck, who, in his time at Fox News, became infamous for his out of control conspiracy theories…
      ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
      http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

      • 117 jplcharron
        September 7, 2011 at 1:54 pm

        This was in response to lisalovesobama’s original post, btw.
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        http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

        • 118 JoJothecat
          September 7, 2011 at 2:19 pm

          Maybe we don’t always state it correctly, but republicans, teabaggers, left-wing pundits SAY stupid, hateful things and they lie to the public. When I say lie, I mean they knowing tell lies about the president, his family, his policies, his religion, etc. They lie about what is truly going on in this country and who is at fault. When they say the president ran up the debt, they know that the tax cuts for the wealthy, medicare part d give-away, and two wars that were not paid for, ran up the debt.

          There were many good dedent republicans and some voted for Obama and some might again. However, when they knowly vote for the likes of Walker, Perry, etc., who want to hurt the poor, middle class, and take away our right to vote….I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about the politicians are the folks who vote for those politicians.

          • 119 jplcharron
            September 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm

            I guess the place I disagree with you is the part about Scott Walker and Rick Perry wanting to hurt the poor and the middle class. I really don’t believe that’s what they are setting out to do.They hold a view of government and the world that is different than yours. Scott Walker honestly believes he is saving Wisconsin by restricting collective bargaining for public sector workers, reducing restrictions on Wisconsin businesses, offering school choice voucher systems, etc. I don’t agree with him on a lot of those things, and we all know he showed absolutely zero diplomacy as he went through the first months of his governorship, but I’m not going to go around calling him Hitler, either.

            Doesn’t it make more sense to question the EFFICACY of his policy, rather than the MOTIVES we can only PRESUME are behind it? If you want to attack the likes of Walker and Perry somewhere, I think you are best off starting there.
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            http://thepoliticalcarnivore.wordpress.com/

            • September 7, 2011 at 3:14 pm

              We question their motives because their policies have been an epic fail too many times over. What they are doing is not new, they’ve seen the results already – it doesn’t work. So its natural to think that these people just don’t care.

  18. 121 Cos
    September 7, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Hello TOD friends. Dropping in to say hello and catch up on the wonderful threads on the blog. Waiting here in Phoenix for my plane to Boston and catching up on the news. I would rather read the news here than watch the CNN monitor here. Have a wonderful day.

  19. 126 carolyn
    September 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    My gut feeling is that Rove is working for Jeb Bush in 2016. Whatever plan he has, it is to have Jeb crowned in 2016. The Bush family definitely despises Perry, and Rove despises whoever the Bushes despise. People like Jim Hightower from Texas know what’s what with that pit of vipers. Perry has worked hard to destroy Texas. There is no Texas “miracle” and I’ve noticed that meme is no longer in the news. If anybody brings any facts to the fore against Perry, he fades.
    If this is all a plan to get Romney nominated…..we’ll see. But, with Republicans, the one who has been striving the longest often gets the nod…Bob Dole, John McCain….the reward for trying so long. Romney has been nothing but a professional candidate since he got run out of Massachusetts, and yes, he did get run out! If he wins the nomination, you will hear A LOT about that!

    • September 7, 2011 at 12:37 pm

      Carolyn,

      I’ve been thinking in similar vein, although I did not settle on Jeb Bush. But I wondered about Rove’s tactics.

      He apparently does not seem fond of Romney, the other potential front runner, and clearly he has a disdain for Perry. So, this morning when I saw a tweet from ABC Good morning GS saying that Rove thought Perry SS plan was toxic, while on my a.m. walk I began mulling just this fact. I kept going over in my mind who he would support. He’s already dinged Michele Bachmann, don’t think he cares much about Huntsman (Mr. 1 percent — bet he’s regretting leaving his post), certainly no support of Palin or Santorum, then who? I kept asking my self.

      Now, you seem to have made the connection for me. Interesting observation.

  20. 128 tally
    September 7, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS!!!

    “several sources” what the FUCK does that mean?? WHO??

    NO ONE can time-travel to the future. NO ONE has seen a transcript or copy of THE SPEECH. NO ONE has a fucking clue. Anyone who says otherwise is LYING.

    This is an orchestrated attempt by the GOPMEDIA™® to low-ball the Joint Session Speech tomorrow, to get people to NOT WATCH IT NO MATTER WHAT.


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